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Churches from NIV to another

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by TomVols, Dec 16, 2009.

  1. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    Compass Bible Church, led by Dr. Mike Fabarez, is switching from the NIV to the ESV as of Jan 1. They point directly to the update of the NIV due in 2011 as one of their reasons. http://www.focalpointministries.org/article/switching-to-the-esv-bible/

    A friend and I discussed this a while back. I couldn't see many using this as a reason why, but now you have a prominent CA church doing this. Wonder if there will be others, and have any of you heard of any?
     
  2. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    Our church never has had an 'official' edition. We have changed the pulpit Bibles from the NIV to the ESV, however.
     
  3. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    I don't imagine many churches have an official version, save for KJVOs. That said, most all churches have a preferred teaching version for pulpit Bibles, pew Bibles, and some go to the extent of Compass or College Church in Wheaton, IL.

    Compass Church's statement was pretty strong.
     
  4. SolaSaint

    SolaSaint Well-Known Member

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    I myself prefer the ESV over the NIV or TNIV, and if it's publisher is going further away from a literal translation then I would assume the their new version will cause many to use the ESV, NKJV or NASB.
     
  5. Thermodynamics

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    I believe that going from the NIV to the ESV is a step in the right direction. The ESV is a more accurate and literal translation than the NIV and based on my readings of both, I also find the ESV easier to read. The NIV reads a little "choppy" to me.
     
  6. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    They're a somewhat large church, but I wouldn't call them a "prominent CA" church. There are many SoCal churches that have membership in the 2K-plus range. It's a matter of economics: land prices here dictate the need for congregations to be larger than in other parts of the country in order to financially support the infrastructure. In Anaheim, there is one area with no less than five Compass-sized churches, including: Calvary East Aneheim, congregation size 4k; Cornerstone Foursquare church, congregation size 3k; Vinyard Anaheim, congregation size 4k; and Friends Church, congregation size 6k.
     
  7. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member

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  8. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member

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    You would be the first to note that the NIV reads in a choppy manner.

    Are you sure you have actually read the ESV much at all?! To make the claim that it reads easier than the NIV is kinda' strange.
     
    #8 Rippon, Dec 17, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 17, 2009
  9. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    This brings up some oft cited yet perhaps not adequately explained statistics. In CA, you still have there what you have (pretty much) everywhere else. True, you do have what some would classify as mega churches or just below, and CA is home to more mega churches than any other state (14% according to Hartford Sem's study). However, there's almost the same number in Texas (13%), yet no one is saying that it's economics/Real Estate that's driving this. Nor have I seen any data that would argue that CA is different from the rest of America in that the median church size is 70 or so. One example: 7% of all PCUSAers call CA home. But they do not register in the largest synods, presbyteries, or churches. Over half the PCUSA churches in CA have less than 150 membership.
    Sorry, I know it's off topic, but it's a hobby of mine. I have loved congregational studies since seminary. I could go on for hours.

    Back to the topic at hand: given the Fabarez connection in publishing, broadcasting, etc., I wouldn't call them "fringe," nor am I trying to say they are the thermometer of all things evangelical. I just believe it noteworthy that a church of this stature would abandon the NIV precisely because of the NIV2011, and I find it also intriguing that they're going to the ESV.
     
  10. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Interesting subtopic indeed. I think it's a combination of land prices, land availability, and polulation density. Land in SoCal pushes 1 million dollars per acre. Plus, since the majority of SoCal is suburban, it's difficult to find land in an area zoned for church-type use. What constitutes a megachurch elsewhere in the nation isn't necessarily a megachurch here in the OC. A 750+ membership is somewhat commonplace. My own church has about 150 members, and we're small (we don't even own a building or have any sizeable assets). Someone commented a while back that 150 members in their neck of the country is pretty normal.
     
  11. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    I think the density is the biggest factor you mention. Add to that the simple fact that many of these churches haven't been around long enough to split :laugh: I'm somewhat serious. The data do not suggest that the issue is merely socio-economic. Obviously other factors play in.
    I use the "standard" defnitions of a megachurch - 2000 or more in avg attendance. Attendance, not membership, is the key in the contemporary defnitions. One church I pastored had over 600 members with a Sun AM attendance of just under 100.

    Makes me want to start a thread about the whole issue of the definition of church sizes. While small churches and mega churches have some consensus, the medium and large church definitions tend to vary a bit.
    While everything is contextual, it's amazing how the median church numbers tend to stay pretty static. Ironically, megachurches tend to maintain or grow in numbers; we have a bit of growth in the number of small churches; the churches in the middle have the hardest time hanging on. Some explode into megachurches while some atrophy down to a smaller one or split intentionally or not.

    Anyway, sorry for chasing this rabbit. It's way too much fun :tongue3: I think every pastor ought to be forced to take a class on congregational analysis. It's the first thing I do when called to a new church and one of the most enjoyable yet eye-opening things I do when consulting with churches. I love it when I hear "We didn't know that about ourselves."
     
  12. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    I'm interested in knowing more about this so I'm going to kick off a thread in the General discussions forum. Please feel free to enlighten us there.
     
  13. Thermodynamics

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    Hi Rippon,

    I may be "kinda' strange," but to me the ESV reads in a manner that is more natural than the NIV. I may be the first, but that does not change the fact that I find the NIV choppy, like a bunch of short, quick blurbs strung together. That style of writing may appeal to some, but it puts me off just a little.
     
  14. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    If by choppy, you mean short sentences, that may be fair. Doesn't mean the NIV isn't clearer though. That's a first for me. Typically when people refer to choppiness, if you will, they're usually talking about the KJV or NASB (esp the '77). I suppose all translations can be awkward at times.

    Anyway, one more rabbit I'm chasing :tongue3:
     
  15. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    That might not work here. I'd venture that 1 out of every 10 or so churches here has Sunday attendance (not membership) of 2k or more.
     
  16. David Michael Harris

    David Michael Harris Active Member

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    Goodness me, my first church even used the Good News Bible, I wonder what effect that had upon me? The Pulpit was open to the preachers choice though, almost always NIV with the KJV with some older folk.

    I would say that if a passage needed special explanation then you just go ahead and do that.
     
  17. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you have read the NIV enough to make those statements.

    I picked up a library book today. The Complete Guide To bible Translations by Ron Rhodes.

    On page 192 he says the following :

    Some reviewers have claimed that the HCSB is slightly wooden in its style, occasionally awkward, and sometimes choppy.
     
  18. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    Well, that's a pretty universal definition. Even so, the data suggest that the median holds pretty well.
     
  19. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Again, however, in this area, the price of land, the limited availability of open property, and population density dictate that churches must have larger congregations to financially survive.
     
  20. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    I don't quite understand. Are you saying the data is wrong? Just curious.
     
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