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Featured Concerning the impossibility of a 1000 year earthly reign:

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by canadyjd, May 16, 2021.

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  1. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    In Hebrews 7-8, we see a long description of Jesus Christ as our
    High Priest.

    We are told the role of High Priest is permanent, it lasts forever. We are told the location were He serves as High Priest is at the right hand of the Father’s throne in heaven.

    And then we are told that “if He were on the earth, He would not be a priest at all”.

    So, if Jesus were to reign on the earth for 1000 years, He would have to renounce His position as our High Priest, which is impossible.

    peace to you
     
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  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    If you disagree, please reconcile your view with Hebrews 7-8.

    peace to you
     
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  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Heb 8:4 (NASB95)
    Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law;

    Not be a priest at all, refers to He would not be a priest under the Old Covenant of the Law.

    Thus the verse says nothing impacting the 1000 year reign as King on David's throne. During the period He would also be our High Priest, under the New Covenant, as He is our High Priest forever.
     
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  4. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I agree.
    Hebrews 5:6, Hebrews 6:20, Hebrews 7:15-17, Hebrews 7:24-2.
    That is one ( of three ) that I see in His word.
    We are also not told, anywhere in the Scriptures, that this location lasts forever.

    Rather, we are told in many places, that this location will change twice:
    Zechariah 14:4-11, Revelation 21.
    I disagree.

    His ruling and reigning from earthly Jerusalem ( and our ruling and reigning with Him, Revelation 20:4-8 and many passages in the prophets ) will make Him no less our High Priest when He comes again,
    neither will His being in the New Jerusalem come down from Heaven to the earth ( Revelation 21 ) make Him any less our High Priest.
    Here's the passage I believe that you are referring to:

    " Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
    2 a minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
    3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore [it is] of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
    4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
    5 who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, [that] thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
    6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
    "

    In the above I clearly see that Christ, who is set down at the right hand of the Father ( Mark 16:19, Acts of the Apostles 7:55-56, Romans 8:34, Ephesians 1:20, Colossians 3:1, Hebrews 1:3, Hebrews 10:12, 1 Peter 3:22, Revelation 3:21 ), makes intercession for believers there.

    That will change.
     
    #4 Dave G, May 16, 2021
    Last edited: May 16, 2021
  5. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Reading on in Hebrews, I come to this:

    " but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
    23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
    24 and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel."
    ( Hebrews 12:22-24 ).

    What we as believers are come to right now, in our hearts and minds spiritually, is the above.
    Also, all the saints who came before us are there, awaiting the first resurrection which is unto life which happens when He comes again ( Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18, Revelation 20:4-8 ).

    He currently awaits that coming,
    when all His enemies shall be put under His feet ( Hebrews 10:13, Psalms 110:1, Matthew 22:44, Isaiah chapters 60-65 and many others ).

    Then will be fulfilled Psalms 110, Daniel 2:44-45, Ezekiel 36, Ezekiel 37, Amos 9:11-15, Obadiah 1:19-21, Micah 1:1-9, Micah 2:12-13, Micah 4:1-10, Micah 5:10-15, Micah 7:14-17, Zephaniah 3:8-20, Zechariah 3:8-9, Zechariah 8:1-8, Zechariah 8:20-23, Zechariah 10, Zechariah 12, Zechariah 13, Zechariah 14, and Malachi 3...
    When He comes again, cleaves the Mount of Olives in two ( Zechariah 14:14 ), and sets Himself on the throne of His father David ( Luke 1:32 ) at Jerusalem.

    His temple and throne will be as Ezekiel described ( Ezekiel 40, Ezekiel 41, Ezekiel 42, Ezekiel 43, Ezekiel 44, Ezekiel 45, Ezekiel 46, Ezekiel 47 ),
    and the remnant of Israel who sees Him when He comes again, and mourns after realizing what they've done, shall inhabit the land for that thousand years ( Ezekiel chapters 46-48 ), finally inheriting the promises of the prophets.

    Therefore,
    symbolizing Revelation 20 also makes symbology out of most of the rest of the Old Testament prophecies that deal with His second coming, and nullifies Him making His enemies His footstool.
    See my above.
    He remains our High Priest forever, and we will dwell with Him, forever.


    Good evening to you,
    and May God bless you with His goodness in many ways.
     
    #5 Dave G, May 16, 2021
    Last edited: May 16, 2021
  6. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

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    If Jesus the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords, the creator of all things and able to hold all things together with His power, then He must have the ability to hold the office of both King and High Priest. Was not Melchizedek both King and High Priest?
     
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  7. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the response.

    The reason it says nothing of a 1000 year reign on earth is because there is no 1000 year reign on earth.

    peace to you
     
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  8. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the response and kind wishes.

    Hebrews makes it clear the old priesthood and covenant has been replaced by the new.

    One of the teachings of dispen is the restoration of the temple worship in Jerusalem along with the Jewish priesthood and animal sacrifices. Is that how you see it?

    peace to you
     
  9. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Of course Jesus holds the “offices” of Prophet, High Priest, and King.

    He just doesn’t do that during 1000 year reign on earth, He does that forever in heaven.

    Thanks for the response.

    peace to you
     
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  10. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Only when the judgment is finished will Jesus stop making intercession for believers.

    At that point the new heaven and new earth will be established, the unsaved will be cast forever into eternal punishment.

    Thanks for the comments

    peace to you
     
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  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Saying taint so does make scripture disappear. The position presented in the OP has been shown to be bogus. Full Stop
     
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Hebrews 8:4, ". . . For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: . . ."

    Christ was already made priest "The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek." Christ being at the right hand of God.

    Since this priesthood is eternal, His 1000 year rule on earth cannot nullify it!
     
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  13. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Scripture does not say there will be a 1000 year reign of Christ on earth. The passage in Rev speaks of martyrs reigning with Christ for 1000 years. Christ reigns in heaven forever.

    Thanks for the comments

    peace to you
     
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  14. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    The passage you quoted says if He (Jesus) were on the earth, He would not be a priest.

    It doesn’t say He will not be a priest unless He is coming to reign for 1000 years.

    If He were on the earth, He would not be a priest. No exceptions given.

    If He comes to the earth to reign for 1000 years, He will not be a priest. That is impossible, as His priesthood is eternal.

    Thanks for the comments

    peace to you
     
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  15. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

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    Food for thought.

    The religious leaders at the time of Jesus knew the Scriptures and could quote then easily. Yet Jesus told them that they didn't know the Scriptures. So they could recite them from memory and studied them for long days but Jesus informed them that they didn't (really) know them.

    Jesus also told the story of the poor man Lazarus at Abraham's side and the rich man in hades. The rich man wanted to be allowed to go back and warn his brothers so that they could avoid the same fate. Jesus told him his brothers had Moses and the prophets issuing the warning. The response was as we all know, the brothers don't believe Moses and the prophets. It's not said that they didn't know the writing of Moses and the prophets rather it is implied that they didn't believe Moses and the prophets.
     
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  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I understood your argument. You are evidently unable to understand the argument I presented.

    True or false was Jesus at God's side in Heaven when He was made priest per Psalms 110:4?

    Can God charge His oath? If yes, on what condition did God say He would?
     
  17. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

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    So you claim forever in heaven, yet provide no verse that backs up your claim.


    "Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man."

    The Lord God will be on the throne visible in both Paradise on earth at the Second Coming. Revelation 6:12-6


    "For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount."


    The Cross did away with the earthly tabernacle.


    "But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord."

    There is a "third covenant". The Second Covenant was the completion of the First Covenant. The One Covenant was only One Testament split into two parts. The First Covenant is not the Law of Moses. The Law of Moses was a subset of the First Covenant. That is the mistake most make. Melchizedek is Shem, the son of Noah. He represents both the Covenant of Noah and of Abraham. That is the First Covenant. The Law of Moses completed the 3rd part of that Covenant. Noah was the Covenant of Adam that though his seed, the Messiah would be born. The church is the whole of the OT covenant, not just a priesthood under the Law of Moses.

    But Hebrews chapter 8 claims there is a new covenant, not even related to the church, which was the finished work of the Cross. The Cross was not made solely to the Jews, it was for the fulness of the Gentiles to be brought into the OT Covenant.

    This dispensational view of the Replacement theology that many deny is dispensational, but is, claims the church is Israel. That is pure dispensationalism. Israel is not the Covenant. Israel is the Law. The church is not the Covenant. The church is Grace. God is the Covenant that started with the prophecy of Genesis 3 to provide the Atonement that Adam's disobedience required. The Covenant preserved by Noah, that Abraham obeyed in faith, that Jacob wrestled for to become Israel, that was the economy of the Law, that was finished at the Cross, the physical point of the Atonement. Those dispensations each a stepping stone to completion on the Cross.

    There is no such thing as the dispensation of replacement Covenant. That is human theology. The Cross did not replace any Covenant. It was the completion of God's Covenant starting with Adam and Eve when they were punished.

    Show me a verse that claims the Law was a Covenant. Hebrews 8 does not give the length. It does prophecy there will be a new covenant with Israel and it backs up the promise given to David that there would be a forever kingdom on earth. It starts 1000 years prior to the GWT, per Revelation 20.

    "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."


    This cannot happen until the Gentile church is completed at the Second Coming. Christ the Lamb has to complete the 70th week in person on earth. The final harvest. The church is not on earth for the 1000 year reign. The church is completed: the final harvest. The Atonement Covenant is completed. It will wax old and be forgotten as promised. This waxing old is the 1000 year reign of Christ. Only at the Second Coming will Daniel's 70 weeks be complete and the promise given to restore and remove Israel's transgression. Not the church. Israel is still a small part called out of the church. That is the 144k of Revelation 7. They rule and reign with Christ on earth for 1000 years. Not the church, who is all of the Redeemed from Abel to those raptured at the Second Coming. The church is in Paradise the temple of God with that original alter made for Adam and Eve, that Abel was the priest of, and was slain on. Shem knew of that alter from before the Flood. Then he built Jerusalem after the Flood. That is the one and only Covenant completed by Jesus Christ. The Next Covenant will still be on earth after the Second Coming when fire burns up all the evidence of the here and now, just like the water did of Noah's Day.
     
  18. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    You are correct. I didn’t understand your argument.

    You seem to be stating that Christ was already The High Priest, prior to the incarnation. Since He left the Fathers side to come to the earth during the incarnation, He could come to earth for a 1000 year reign and that wouldn’t effect His priesthood either.

    Was that your argument?

    You would have to believe Christ had an eternal ministry in heaven of making intercession before the Father for believers.

    I’ll think about it, but it doesn’t seem consistent with the establishment of a new Priesthood to replace the old. And it doesn’t change the statement in scripture that if He were on the earth, He would not be a priest.

    Thanks for the comment

    peace to you
     
    #18 canadyjd, May 17, 2021
    Last edited: May 17, 2021
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  19. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

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    You say Christ reigns in heaven forever, yet no verse to show such. Words do matter.
     
  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Yes.
    He is priest forever per Psalms 110:4.
     
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