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Correctness and Accuracy; Belief and Fact

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by born again and again, Aug 23, 2005.

  1. born again and again

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    There you go again, steaver, questioning my beliefs. I do not question your beliefs. It is also interesting to note that you did not respond to the statement,

    "The phrase "(John 10:14) Spoken by Jesus Christ", really refers to the writings contained in the letters subscribed under the name of John, but written by someone as yet unidentified; and attributed to Jesus."
     
  2. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Religion = Do (us).

    Christianity = Done (Christ's death).
     
  3. born again and again

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    religion =

    "noun

    1. a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.

    b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief or worship.

    2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.

    3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

    4. A cause, principle. or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.


    Christian =

    adjective

    1. Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.

    2. Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.

    3. Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.

    4. Showing a loving concern for others; humane.

    noun

    1. One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the teachings of Jesus.


    Christianity =

    noun

    1. The Christian religion, founded on the life and teachings of Jesus.

    2. Christians as a group; Christendom.

    3. The state or fact of being a Christian."


    God Bless

    [ August 24, 2005, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: born again and again ]
     
  4. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    I have every right to question your beliefs and I am also commanded by my Christian Scriptures to do so. Secondly, this forum is for Christians only and I have yet to hear anything from you that would suggest that you are a Christian. In fact to suggest that no one knows for sure what Jesus said is absolutely un-Christian.

    As for "The phrase spoken by Jesus Christ" really refering to anything other than it being the words of Jesus Christ is yet another non-Christian belief.

    So, again I ask, do you know for a fact that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that He was crucified, buried and raised again to life the third day?

    If you cannot prove you are a Christian then you should not be here unless it is to learn the Truth about Jesus Christ as written in the Christian Holy Scriptures.

    God Bless!
     
  5. born again and again

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    Once again steaver:

    It is not up to you to question my beliefs. Fortunately I do not answer to you.

    It is neither up to me to comment on your understanding of your own beliefs.

    God Bless!

    P.S. It doesn't appear that you are up to the debate.
     
  6. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Did you catch that little caption under the Header "Other Christian Denominations" which states..." Debate other denominations' doctrines/beliefs here ".

    Now I asked about your beliefs and you say you will not say.

    So why are you here?
     
  7. born again and again

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    I answered that question the first time you asked it in your PM. So don't now go on the public board and pretend that I did not tell you that I am a born again Christian.

    It appears that you need to examine yourself and your motives. What is it about your personality that causes you to act like you have some higher level of belief than anyone else? Me included. Get a life, steaver.

    I am here to learn and to participate. Why are you here, steaver?

    God Bless
     
  8. born again and again

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    steaver, if you don't have the where-with-all to respond to the topics presented, then perhaps you should find another forum.

    This topic is not about me. AND IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU!
     
  9. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Here is our entire conversation privately..

    Where did you answer my questions concerning Jesus Christ?

    Really? Then why don't you answer my questions?

    I am here to learn and participate. That is why i asked you questions [​IMG]

    The topic led to whether or not anyone can know for sure what Jesus said, your words. I asked questions concerning "your words" and you decide you don't need to answer. Now how are you going to learn and participate like that?

    The church you state as your denomination has this to say about Scripture...

    Now how do you reconcile this with "no one knows for sure what Jesus said (your words)"??

    God Bless!
     
  10. TexasSky

    TexasSky Guest

    Okay.

    I'm going to reply to this, because I feel it needs to be corrected, however - I will tell you, I find your name, and your profile, to be a bit "mocking" of Christianity.

    Combined with your statements that indicate you do not believe the bible is the actual word of God, and your statements that no one knows what Christ really taught - I cannot help but feel that you are trying to bait Christians into a fight. If that is wrong - I encourage you to change your tactics.

    That said: You wrote Second, no one knows what Jesus said, as he never wrote anything down and neither did anyone who witnessed his actions.

    That is an inaccurate statement. The books of the New Testament were, for the most part, written by eye witnesses. The signature copies of scriptures may be missing today, but no qualified historian doubts that there were 1st century manuscripts as a source of more modern manuscripts.
     
  11. born again and again

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    The books of the New Testament were not written by eyewitnesses, and historians, although many have tried, do not recognize any particular document as positively having been written by anyone who actually witnessed the acts of Jesus. Many of the books in the New Testament come from letters written by Paul who, though a contemporary of Jesus, never met him.

    Making false claims regarding the sources of the first documents used to compile the New Testament undermines the truths contained therein.

    God Bless
     
  12. born again and again

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    For example, historians pretty much agree that no one knows who actually wrote the "Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John" books of the New Testament, but they surmise that Luke was a follower of Paul.
     
  13. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    In a debate forum such as this we question each others beliefs on a regular basis. That is one of the purposes of debate and of learning. Questions like: "Do you know for sure that if you should die right now that you would go to Heaven?" are valuable questions. Can you answer it?
    It seems to me he wrote something in the sand one day. A lot of people witnessed it too. They were very much convicted by what he wrote, and instead of stoning a woman (of which they previously had every intention of doing), they, each one, ashamedly went to their own homes. Never?? hmmmm.
    This is your opinion? Guesswork? Or what? On what basis do you make these statements. I am biting my naturally sarcastic tongue, but it is hard to do. I am about ready to let loose.
    Who were some of the disciples? Shall I introduce you to some of them?
    John was the youngest of them all. In case these truths are not self-evident a disciple (i.e., Apostle) was an eye-witness of the things that Jesus both said and did. John wrote: "The Gospel of John, The First, Second, and Third Epistles of John, and the Book of Revelation. John was an eyewitness of all that Jesus did in his ministry. Here is what John said:

    1 John 1:1-3 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
    2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
    3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

    Or do you contend John is lying and was not an eyewitness who wrote this book, and wrote these things. John, the youngest of the disciples lived the longest and died before the end of the first century. This epistle was written about 90 A.D., not hundreds of years later. It was one of the last books to be written, Revelation the last book was written in 98 A.D.
    If you don't put your faith solely in the truths of this book, then it is possible you are not saved and worship another god, and not the God of the Bible. Christ is revealed to us through the Bible and only the Bible, God's revealed truth to mankind. He has not revealed his truth to man in any other way. If you are receiving "revelation" of God in some other way other than the Bible, then that "revelation" is not of God, but from the devil.
    John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

    I am not sure exactly what you are referring to. But the sayings of Jesus, as recorded by John, are just that. John wrote down what Jesus said. To say otherwise is:
    To call Christ a liar.
    To call John a liar.
    To call the Holy Spirit who bears witness to these things a liar.

    On what basis do you make these allegations?
    What evidence do you put forth "the writings contained in the letters subscribed under the name of John, but written by someone as yet unidentified;" is a valid statement? This is pure hogwash. What evidence do you have for your opinions. Back them up before you say such heretical things.
    DHK
     
  14. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    "no one knows"
    I would actually like to meet this "no one"
    He knows a lot. [​IMG]
     
  15. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Surmise??
    Why don't you take the time to read the Book of Acts?
    Here is one verse for you:
    Acts 20:6 And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.

    Throughout the record we find the first person plural pronoun used. Why? Because Luke was the author, and Luke accompanied Paul. It isn't difficult to see how Luke accompanied Paul from the internal evidence alone.
    DHK
     
  16. hillclimber

    hillclimber New Member

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    In another sense, man does nothing for God, unless it is profitable.
     
  17. hillclimber

    hillclimber New Member

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    Are you a brand new believer?
     
  18. born again and again

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    It all comes down to belief. Faith = belief. The problem arises when individuals try to turn their beliefs into "facts". According to the American Heritage Dictionary, faith is the belief in something despite the lack of evidence to support it. Christianity is a religion, a faith based belief. No one on this board can identify any scientific publication which states that there is scientific (logical) proof that any of the books of the New Testament were written by eyewitnesses to acts of Jesus. There are no such documents. That does not mean that one cannot believe in the truth of the NT, it just means that the belief is not based on science, it is based on faith, and faith is what religion is all about.
     
  19. born again and again

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    Has it occurred to anyone in here that it is not logically possible to prove the identity of the author of the Gospel "John", by quoting from "John?"
     
  20. born again and again

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    Or by quoting any other writings whose authors are not positively ascertained.
     
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