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Featured Creeds vs. Bible

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by asterisktom, Feb 21, 2020.

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  1. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    The days of His flesh were those years of His Incarnation. BTW, I would to hear you - or from anyone else here - what "days of His flesh" means to you. My position is that an unbiased interpretation - that is, not running to a commentary - would be to assume that these "days" were bracketed by periods that were not "flesh". Seeing that we are speaking of Christ that would be both directions of eternity of not being in the flesh.

    There are no inspired historical records seeing that Scripture was closed with the event itself. There are uninspired but still helpful historical accounts from Josephus, Tacitus, and others

    "In the sky appeared a vision of armies in conflict, of glittering armour. A sudden lightening flash from the clouds lit up the Temple. The doors of the holy place abruptly opened, a superhuman voice was heard to declare that the gods were leaving it, and in the same instant came the rushing tumult of their departure." - the Histories 5.13

    "Parousia" means "presence" so, no, I do not believe He will appear in the eschatological sense. He is here now. When we die, of course, we will be with Him in a more intimate sense. "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord".
     
    #121 asterisktom, Feb 22, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020
  2. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Not sure why you say this. I would rather be friendly than make enemies. All I am doing is writing what I believe. And asking for Scriptural feedback, not traditional. I have benefited immensely from this board and had to modify my views on several points. But that was when there was Scriptural interaction.
     
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  3. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    I use the creeds as a safeguard trusting they are right for the most part until proven wrong. So I use the Ecumenical Creeds up through the Council of Ephesus which essentially agrees with Calvinism. And the Reformed Creeds up to the point they differ from the 1689 LBC. It helps from eating crow when commenting on various forums.
     
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  4. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    A 'reading' absolutely divorced from the text. See? You're the 'credal' guy in this discussion.
     
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  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    It took me a minute (I'm not always quick on the uptake).

    That is a good point.
     
  6. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    At what point is my reading divorced from the text? Saying isnt proving.
     
  7. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    asterisktom, as I mentioned earlier, your beliefs are new to me. So far, the only thing we have in common is that we both self-identify as Baptist. Are you, or have you been, a member of a Baptist church which is in a Baptist association such as: North American Baptist, Conservative Baptist, etc.?
     
  8. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Not.

    Yes, there's ample scripture showing the imminent return of Christ to 'that generation'. To deny that is to make Christ and the apostles liars. What is that but outright blasphemy?
     
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  9. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    28 so Christ also, having been once offered to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time, apart from sin, to them that wait for him, unto salvation. Heb 9
    37 For yet a very little while, He that cometh shall come, and shall not tarry. Heb 10

    Does "a very little while", and "shall not tarry" actually mean 'thousands of years and still waiting'? Did the writer of Hebrews lie? Grossly exaggerate?
     
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  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Please cite this.
     
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Wow. You really fail to understand the prophecy of was yet future event, Habakkuk 2:3, ". . . For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry. . . ." Which speaks not of when but how, Matthew 24;27; Revelation 1:7.
     
  12. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    The beliefs were new to me too. I finally accepted them during a Bible study I led on Hebrews. I started out Amill and ended up Preterist. I knew even then that there was a lot of opposition to this view. Try as I may I just could not unconnect the dots I saw in Scripture. I was honestly looking for some sort of "moderate" position, hopefully through some balancing feedback from other Christians. But to my surprise there was a lot of animosity from former friends. Almost as surprising were the rebuttals I received. Most of them were either "The church has never believed this, Creeds X, Y, Z say this ... etc." or they were just plain insulting.

    The church I am a member of is Independent Baptist, though I have not been able to attend for a good while, being out of the country for so long. For a while I went to a Southern Baptist church in Del Rio, Texas, but the new preacher put a stop to my teaching anymore. Though he kindly allowed me to warm the pew.
     
    #132 asterisktom, Feb 23, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
  13. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Yes, indeed, we are all still waiting for those Chaldeans, that "bitter and hasty nation" to fill the land. Hab. 1.6.

    It is you that is linking those NT verses with Habakkuk 2.3, not the Bible.
     
  14. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.

    Tom: The fox only looked brown, because it was dusk on a cloudy day.

    Aaron: There's nothing in the text to suggest that.

    Tom: Prove it.
    :Roflmao

    No. You show its connections, and I will illuminate your errors.
     
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  15. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    I am not going to repeat myself to accomodate you. In posts 25, 27, 30, 118, and 121 I showed plenty of connections on the larger question of timing. I might also add KyRedneck's post 129.

    None of which you responded to. Unless you consider snide one-liners a response.

    I also had responded to your specific point here on an earlier thread. It also received no answer.

    A common situation I encounter is when I present verses A, B, C, and D. And the response is to ignore those and say, "How about verse L?"
     
    #135 asterisktom, Feb 24, 2020
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  16. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    You're not claiming that Christ is sitting on the right hand of God. Which is what those verses prove. They do not say anything about His second coming already happening.
    You also quoted this above Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
    Those who would not taste of death in this verse. Could have been the watchers or fallen angles. No one not even you know exactly who He was speaking of.
    MB
     
  17. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    I visited those posts, and I can tell you I don't have the corner on snide remarks.

    Also, I'm talking about the Resurrection, and you're arguing about the Kingdom. Marriage kills your eschatology, because in Christ, there is no male or female. And there can be no marriage where there is no male or female.

    Where marriage is, there is law. And where there is law, not all has been fulfilled. Matthew 5:17.

    Dude, you're done.
     
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  18. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Let's try it a different way.

    1.The marriage passage addresses the contemporary hearers, not us.
    2. For them there is no male or female.
    3. The Law was finished the same time the marriage issue was done away with - for them.
    4. That passage says nothing about our situation today.
     
    #138 asterisktom, Feb 24, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
  19. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    There are two or three foundational misunderstandings that are at the root of much of modern eschatological misinterpretation.

    1. Eschatology has to do with the last days of the Jewish people as a covenant nation.
    2. Eschatological passages of the New Testament must be interpreted divorced from their Old Testament.
    3. Almost all of the New Testament eschatological passages are not worldwide in application but are limited to a certain time ("this generation") and a certain place (the land of Israel, not the world, the city of Jerusalem not Rome).
     
  20. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    And we're back where we started. My job here is finished. :Biggrin
     
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