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Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Van, Jun 23, 2020.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Insults and deflection on display, an apparent attempt to hide that once again the NIV has been shown to be a will nilly translation.
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    We can agree, the NIV would score much lower, probably off the bottom of the scale.
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    2. Consistency Rate of Word Choices

    Ideally, each word (or more precisely each distinctive sense of a word) in the source text corresponds to a unique word in the target text, and each target word corresponds to a unique source word. While this is impossible in actual practice,as exact lexical equivalence between languages is rare, the degree to which the target text approximates this isomorphism is an indication of how consistent the translation is across the whole Bible and how much the translators have tried to express the original text literally.This is done by aggregating all the correspondences found in the reverse interlinear data and calculating the overall ratio of one-to-one mapping.

    Consistency Rate of Word Choices Version Score

    KJV 73.48%
    NASB 70.70%
    NKJV 69.52%
    ESV 66.89%
    NRSV 62.88%
    CSB 59.25%
    NET 57.06%
    NIV 54.19%
    NLT 47.25
    With this analysis we see the scatter gun approach where consistency is increasingly given lip service, but willy nilly choices are increasingly on display. Overall the NIV is less consistent that the NASB, NKJV, and just about everybody else* other than the NLT.
    _______
    * everyone else refers to the listed translation versions. I had to add this footnote because Mr. Rippon2 could not grasp the reference. :)
     
  4. Rippon2

    Rippon2 Well-Known Member

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    Since Mr. Wu admitted that it is rare to have exact lexical equivalence. It follows that a sense-based translation such as the NIV would score higher.
     
    #64 Rippon2, Jun 27, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    If a person is willingly blind, a sunrise would not be self evident. Liberals attack the meaning of words like willy nilly but a dictionary tells us "he doth protest too much.
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Pathetic and obviously false claim. Mr. Rippon2 simply makes up nonsense and posts it as soon as possible to sustain his smokescreed.
     
  7. Rippon2

    Rippon2 Well-Known Member

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    Better watch yourself there Van. You are not Mr. Wu. You tried to get away with blending your thoughts in with his words. That is dishonest of you Van.

    Let me refresh your old memory banks Van. You had said "just about everybody else other than the NLT" You have confused Bible versions with people!
     
    #67 Rippon2, Jun 27, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020
  8. Conan

    Conan Active Member

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    Perhaps a mediating position could be found.
    The NIV certainly has a lot of room for improvement, but is found to have worth at it's foundation.
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Only a dullard would not recognize your deflection as asinine.
     
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yes, what is mind boggling to me is that the flaws are rather easy to identify, scatter gun and agenda driven word choices, but very few offer suggestions for improvement.

    If we think about the analysis (see post #63) the NIV is only about two thirds are consistent as the KJV. And then if you look at the flaws in the posted list, several of straight up corruptions to pour Calvinism into the text. What in tennis are called unforced errors.
     
  11. Rippon2

    Rippon2 Well-Known Member

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    You can't have it both ways Van-man. Is it scatter gun, or is it agenda driven?
    In reality it is driven to be as faithful as possible to the originals in clear language. But of course, in your mind that would be impossible.

    How poorly would the LEB fare under Mr. Wu's analysis?
     
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another worthless response, some translation choices needless are not consistent with a word or phrase meaning, and other verses translation choices are mistranslations to pour Calvinist doctrine into the text.
    And once again Mr. Rippon2 claims to be a mind reader. Finally, note the effort to ignore the analysis of the NiV, and instead postulate the non-existent analysis of the LEB. Deflection of display
     
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Candor requires mention that the NIV scored about 7% better than the NASB in readability, while scoring about 14% below the NASB in literalness.

    The dubious assertion of the study is it is difficult to balance those two goals. My view is that our translations fall short because of under utilization of computer optimization programs.
     
  14. Rippon2

    Rippon2 Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't have said it better myself!
     
  15. Rippon2

    Rippon2 Well-Known Member

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    You have claimed it is both, but of course that is double-speak.
    In reality the NIV is faithful to the originals and communicates in clear, natural language.
     
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    On and on Mr. Rippon2 simply ignores the reality presented in the study, which is the NIV does not consistently translate word or phrase meanings.
     
  17. Rippon2

    Rippon2 Well-Known Member

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    Van typed the above absurdness.

    I had said Mr. Wu admitted that it is rare to have exact lexical equivalence.
    Do you, Van, disagree that he said that? If you do disagree, you are out of your ever-lovin' mind.

    Mr. Wu isn't the only person who believes the above --common sense dictates it.

    Since there is no such thing as exact lexical equivalence it therefore follows that a sense-based translation such as the NIV would score higher.

    Of course, because it is entirely reasonable, Van rejects it as totally unacceptable.

    It would take a well-trained psychologist or even a Vulcan mind meld to plumb the depths of Van's illogical brain processes.
     
  18. Conan

    Conan Active Member

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    The NIV makes mistakes in Text & translation at times. Yes it has worth as a translation but it has room for improvement.
     
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The above edited quote demonstrates "Mr. Rippon2 simply makes up nonsense and posts it as soon as possible to sustain his smokescreed.

    Candor requires mention that the NIV scored about 7% better than the NASB in readability, while scoring about 14% below the NASB in literalness.

    The dubious assertion of the study is it is difficult to balance those two goals. My view is that our translations fall short because of under utilization of computer optimization programs.
     
  20. Rippon2

    Rippon2 Well-Known Member

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    Van is stuck. He is forced to be non-committal. He is confounded. If he concedes that he agrees with Mr. Wu, then Van has no argument. If he disagrees, then he goes full-bore into irrationality.

    My guess is that Van will double down because his ego will not allow him to demonstrate any integrity.

    But the fact remains --there is no such thing as "exact lexical equivalence" when it comes to Bible translations. It can't even be done in secular translations of one language to another.

    The fact also remains that a "sense-based translation" is what most Bible versions depend upon most of the time.

    Facts are inconvenient obstructions to Van's agenda. That's why he relies on fiction to further his ill-fated cause.
     
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