Death Penalty - Is it Biblical?

[JesusFan]

The passage specifically says we, as Christians, are to follow the example of God when He showed mercy to the murderer Paul.

We cannot show mercy and support the death penalty.

Thank you for answering

peace to you

we are to show justice to those whose loved ones were killed first!

 

[canadyjd]

we are to show justice to those whose loved ones were killed first!

Scripture reference please where Christians are commanded to be God’s administers of justice in the world

peace to you

 

[JesusFan]

Scripture reference please where Christians are commanded to be God’s administers of justice in the world

peace to you

Any place where the lord has placed them in positions of authority, such as Judges!

 

[canadyjd]

Any place where the lord has placed them in positions of authority, such as Judges!

No, Jesus only gave specific people as leaders within the church.

Not saying some of these folks aren’t Christians, only that Jesus didn’t specifically give them that role.

peace to you

 

[JesusFan]

No, Jesus only gave specific people as leaders within the church.

Not saying some of these folks aren’t Christians, only that Jesus didn’t specifically give them that role.

peace to you

Does not the Lord place His own wherever he desires, on politics, business, and in churches?

 

[canadyjd]

Does not the Lord place His own wherever he desires, on politics, business, and in churches?

Well, we are moving into another topic. Christians have debated since the first century whether Christians should serve in jobs or careers that may require them to take a life, such as police or military service or even judges.

Scripture tells us God gives gifts of men for ministries within the church. God has always used non-believers in positions of power to accomplish His purpose.

Now back to 1 Timothy 1:16… Can we agree that if a Christian supports putting someone to death they are not following the example God commanded us to follow by showing mercy to the worst of sinners, even murderers like Paul?

peace to you

 

[JesusFan]

Well, we are moving into another topic. Christians have debated since the first century whether Christians should serve in jobs or careers that may require them to take a life, such as police or military service or even judges.

Scripture tells us God gives gifts of men for ministries within the church. God has always used non-believers in positions of power to accomplish His purpose.

Now back to 1 Timothy 1:16… Can we agree that if a Christian supports putting someone to death they are not following the example God commanded us to follow by showing mercy to the worst of sinners, even murderers like Paul?

peace to you

No, because Jesus commanded that all but Noah and His family were to die as judgement for their sins, was that being cruel and not having mercy?

 

[canadyjd]

No, because Jesus commanded that all but Noah and His family were to die as judgement for their sins, was that being cruel and not having mercy?

God gets to do whatever He wants and I would never suggest He acts without perfect righteousness and justice.

And you are avoiding directly addressing the very clear teaching of 1 Timothy 1:16 with these questions.

peace to you

 

[JesusFan]

God gets to do whatever He wants and I would never suggest He acts without perfect righteousness and justice.

And you are avoiding directly addressing the very clear teaching of 1 Timothy 1:16 with these questions.

peace to you

I do not see where sentencing someone to die for committing murder is antichrist!

 

[canadyjd]

I do not see where sentencing someone to die for committing murder is antichrist!

I really don’t know what you are trying to say. Are you claiming I have called someone anti-Christ or are you calling me “anti-Christ” for pointing out the very plain teaching of 1 Timothy 1:16 that God demonstrated mercy to Paul as an example for future Christians to follow?

peace to you

 

[JesusFan]

I really don’t know what you are trying to say. Are you claiming I have called someone anti-Christ or are you calling me “anti-Christ” for pointing out the very plain teaching of 1 Timothy 1:16 that God demonstrated mercy to Paul as an example for future Christians to follow?

peace to you

No, just was saying that it is NOT being un Christ like to support the death penalty for likes of a ted Bundy or Gracy!

 

[canadyjd]

No, just was saying that it is NOT being un Christ like to support the death penalty for likes of a ted Bundy or Gracy!

Ok, thanks for clarifying and thanks for the conversation

peace to you

 

[Darrell C]

Now back to 1 Timothy 1:16… Can we agree that if a Christian supports putting someone to death they are not following the example God commanded us to follow by showing mercy to the worst of sinners, even murderers like Paul?

I have read the thread and think both sides make some good points, including you, particularly in regard as to whether we should acknowledge the death penalty as a reality in the world, but that does not mean Christians should "support it."

A few things I would mention in regard to the comments made would start with the idea Christ abolished the death penalty of the Law (in light of the passage you referenced). I agree with the member that this is not really supportive of Christ abolishing the penalty for sin, because we see that Christ was made under the Law and ministered without violation of the Law. However, we also include Christ's exposition of the Law and it is interesting that murder is one of the issues He addressed. One was guilty of murder by having hatred in his heart for his brother. The principle is that we are to love our fellow man, not hate (which can lead to the physical act of murder and underlies all murder). My point here would be that God's will is that men live in harmony, and when that harmony is disrupted by hatred it has to be dealt with.

I define murder as the intentional taking of life. It is different from killing. When Christ was confronted and challenged to "keep the Law," the problem we see is that it is by murderers in violation of the Law calling for the death penalty. I agree with you, sometimes there is corruption and error that leads to an innocent person being put to death. I don't take a "the good of the many over the good of the one" as an excuse for such error. The death penalty, then, should be something enforced only when it's clearly shown the person intentionally took the life of another.

In regard to Paul being a murderer and God not exacting the penalty of death: I do not see that as negating the general principle God sets forth in the Word of God that those who intentionally take the lives of another should not pay the penalty of death. I do, however, agree that forgiveness of sin is a primary principle God seeks to teach us, and that we are to employ that in our reasoning concerning a topic such as this. But here is something I haven't seen in the discussion: repentance.

In Paul's case we see repentance. Not just in the initial salvation of Paul but in his writings, as you point out.

So I would ask at this point, in the case of a murderer today, would we not also expect repentance on the part of the murderer, that we might liken his case to the forgiveness Paul received?

If the murderer was unrepentant (and I think most are, seeing they seek to evade justice for their sin), would you still think we are to show forgiveness and take the death penalty off the table?

As has been pointed out, we are not the ones making the laws in our country that decide whether the death penalty is or isn't imposed. I agree, it's not something we should celebrate, any more than we would celebrate the ultimate destruction of a man in Hell. We are told the government is established by God for the punishment of those who do evil, and for those of us in the States that means the death penalty is going to be imposed at times. For me, there are those who will never repent, and they revel in murdering people. If they have the opportunity to do so again, they will. So I acknowledge a need for the death penalty, and I do view it as based on the principle God has established in Scripture.

When the police dig up numerous bodies under someone's house and it is obvious they are guilty of murder, I think I would have no problem being on a jury and imposing the death penalty. However, if the evidence presented did not make guilt absolute for me, then I would not cast my vote for it. And that is where having a Biblical view of the death penalty for a murderer makes a difference in our country, and is different in some ways to how Israel interpreted the death penalty and how it was exacted. We might just be the ones that bring about justice in a death penalty case and be the ones to discern corruption and error in the process.

So it would be better, Canadyjd, to have someone like you sitting in a jury box in a death penalty case than someone that does not take a Biblical view of the death penalty. And that is the eventual goal of the principles of God, that our influence in the world makes a difference in what is right and what is wrong. It isn't the call for vengeance as we see in the Pharisees, and based on a rote performance of what they think (erroneously) is service to God. It is analyzing the facts through the lens of what we know to be God's will.

This is the only post I am making in this thread, and I am not going to respond to comments. I only mean to express my own view that I do think the death penalty has its place, but that we as believers have to understand the principles which impact someone's life being taken. I think we all have a view as to how we would vote should we actually ever be in that situation, but I also think that if we were we might not be as rigidly loyal to that view as we think. This is something I have pondered often because I can't honestly say that I would ever want to be in the position where another's life lay in my hands. I think in the case of a serial killer it would be no problem, but apart from that, there are just too many elements that would have to be examined to place all death penalty cases in the same file.


God bless.

 

[CalTech]

Greetings,

I do support the "death Penalty", for it is for the GOOD of the unbeliever's!

So it should be no surprise that the Governments in place throughout the world should stop this practice, because many within the Governments and their agencies, would have to face the death penalty for their "lawlessness" and "Treasonous Actions" against their citizen's.

However God gives wisdom on how the "world" should protect their citizen's against crimes of men, for their safety and protection, however that is disappearing in these later days, where Lawlessness increases in the Government, but also amongst the "religious" organizations.......

The Lord bless you....
In His Love.....

 

[JesusFan]

The death penalty (DP) was often used the OT but rarely in the NT
1) Does the NT prohibit the DP
2) Does the NT permit the DP
3) Does the NT remain silent of the DP

A) is the DP effective in stopping murders and other major crimes
B) Is Life without parole effective in stopping murders .....
C) What Crimes deserve the DP
D) Do political parties take a strong stand on the DP - Pro or con?

Other comments?


Opinion Polls: Death Penalty Support and Religion | Death Penalty Information Center

Not required in every case, but still a viable option, as have no problem to be on the jury sending gacy and Bundy to their deaths!

 

[canadyjd]

I have read the thread and think both sides make some good points, including you, particularly in regard as to whether we should acknowledge the death penalty as a reality in the world, but that does not mean Christians should "support it."

A few things I would mention in regard to the comments made would start with the idea Christ abolished the death penalty of the Law (in light of the passage you referenced). I agree with the member that this is not really supportive of Christ abolishing the penalty for sin, because we see that Christ was made under the Law and ministered without violation of the Law. However, we also include Christ's exposition of the Law and it is interesting that murder is one of the issues He addressed. One was guilty of murder by having hatred in his heart for his brother. The principle is that we are to love our fellow man, not hate (which can lead to the physical act of murder and underlies all murder). My point here would be that God's will is that men live in harmony, and when that harmony is disrupted by hatred it has to be dealt with.

I define murder as the intentional taking of life. It is different from killing. When Christ was confronted and challenged to "keep the Law," the problem we see is that it is by murderers in violation of the Law calling for the death penalty. I agree with you, sometimes there is corruption and error that leads to an innocent person being put to death. I don't take a "the good of the many over the good of the one" as an excuse for such error. The death penalty, then, should be something enforced only when it's clearly shown the person intentionally took the life of another.

In regard to Paul being a murderer and God not exacting the penalty of death: I do not see that as negating the general principle God sets forth in the Word of God that those who intentionally take the lives of another should not pay the penalty of death. I do, however, agree that forgiveness of sin is a primary principle God seeks to teach us, and that we are to employ that in our reasoning concerning a topic such as this. But here is something I haven't seen in the discussion: repentance.

In Paul's case we see repentance. Not just in the initial salvation of Paul but in his writings, as you point out.

So I would ask at this point, in the case of a murderer today, would we not also expect repentance on the part of the murderer, that we might liken his case to the forgiveness Paul received?

If the murderer was unrepentant (and I think most are, seeing they seek to evade justice for their sin), would you still think we are to show forgiveness and take the death penalty off the table?

As has been pointed out, we are not the ones making the laws in our country that decide whether the death penalty is or isn't imposed. I agree, it's not something we should celebrate, any more than we would celebrate the ultimate destruction of a man in Hell. We are told the government is established by God for the punishment of those who do evil, and for those of us in the States that means the death penalty is going to be imposed at times. For me, there are those who will never repent, and they revel in murdering people. If they have the opportunity to do so again, they will. So I acknowledge a need for the death penalty, and I do view it as based on the principle God has established in Scripture.

When the police dig up numerous bodies under someone's house and it is obvious they are guilty of murder, I think I would have no problem being on a jury and imposing the death penalty. However, if the evidence presented did not make guilt absolute for me, then I would not cast my vote for it. And that is where having a Biblical view of the death penalty for a murderer makes a difference in our country, and is different in some ways to how Israel interpreted the death penalty and how it was exacted. We might just be the ones that bring about justice in a death penalty case and be the ones to discern corruption and error in the process.

So it would be better, Canadyjd, to have someone like you sitting in a jury box in a death penalty case than someone that does not take a Biblical view of the death penalty. And that is the eventual goal of the principles of God, that our influence in the world makes a difference in what is right and what is wrong. It isn't the call for vengeance as we see in the Pharisees, and based on a rote performance of what they think (erroneously) is service to God. It is analyzing the facts through the lens of what we know to be God's will.

This is the only post I am making in this thread, and I am not going to respond to comments. I only mean to express my own view that I do think the death penalty has its place, but that we as believers have to understand the principles which impact someone's life being taken. I think we all have a view as to how we would vote should we actually ever be in that situation, but I also think that if we were we might not be as rigidly loyal to that view as we think. This is something I have pondered often because I can't honestly say that I would ever want to be in the position where another's life lay in my hands. I think in the case of a serial killer it would be no problem, but apart from that, there are just too many elements that would have to be examined to place all death penalty cases in the same file.


God bless.

You posted a lot I want to comment on, but I’ll try to be brief.

First, I agree both sides have made good arguments and this debate has been civil and substantive. Thanks to all.

Concerning showing mercy to the murder that shows repentance. This is exactly how I came to have my current view. I used to support DP based on all the verses others have posted

During the 2000 Pres election, a woman named Carla Fye Tucker was executed in Texas. Many had called for the Governor (George Bush) to commute the sentence, he refused.

I remember Pat Robinson saying he believed she had a genuine conversion and should be shown mercy. I was stunned! How can the standard for commuting a sentence be whether we believe the person has had a genuine conversion.

I began an extensive study on the DP and it changed my mind, based on my understanding of scripture.

BTW, there was no doubt to Tuckers verdict. She had been a drug addicted prostitute that killed an elderly couple with a pick axe.

She had converted in prison and by all accounts was a genuine Christian, ready to die and be with her Lord. I expect to meet her some day.

I would never serve on a jury where the death penalty is an option. They ask the question in the selection process and I would always be truthful.

peace to you

 

[Salty]

...During the 2000 Pres election, a woman named Carla Fye Tucker was executed in Texas. Many had called for the Governor (George Bush) to commute the sentence, he refused.

I remember Pat Robinson saying he believed she had a genuine conversion and should be shown mercy. I was stunned! How can the standard for commuting a sentence be whether we believe the person has had a genuine conversion. ...

I do remember that - and likewise - a profession of faith should not be the sole decision in commuting a sentence.