death penalty?

[Bro. James Reed]

And God is the only one with the Divine wisdom and Divine righteousness to carry out the death penalty.

Romans 13 is a warning to Christians not to rebel against the government. Again, we have no obligation to support something contrary to the teachings of Christ just because the government does it.

I am not one of the prophets and God does not need my help to kill anyone. Therefore, I will follow His example of "perfect patience" and leave the administration of the death penalty to God.

peace to youraying:

Why is this? Many of you believe that God needs your help to bring spiritual life to someone, but then you say He wouldn't need your help to bring about someone's death?

Obviously, my first post was a joke. Of course, Christ never says that we should seek the death of anyone. Christ didn't say we should be against abortion either. He didn't say that homosexuality is wrong. Christ didn't say a lot of things outright. That's why we have all of scripture.

Putting someone to death is not depriving them of a "chance to be saved." If they are a child of God, then they will be saved regardless of what punishment they may face for their past crimes.

We execute people who have demonstrated that they pose a danger to society. If they've done it before, what's to stop them from doing it again. It is called the greater good, folks. The right of all of us to leave free from fear of a single nut outweighs that single nut's right to continue breathing our air.

Life in prison does not always work. As was seen near the Mexico border this week, people do escape from prison.

We are committing no sin by following through with a legal penalty which fits the crime committed.

God has the ability to change hearts, we do not. The only way we have to be sure there is not a continuation of murder is by eliminating the problem. That means executing murderers.

I don't know about other states that are having so many difficulties with DNA and the like, but down here, we seek the death penalty when there is irrefutable evidence to the contrary. If you have several witnesses that saw a man shoot a 7/11 clerk, have the guy on video doing it, have his fingerprints on the gun used, and have the clerks blood on the man's shoes, that to me is fairly convincing evidence that the guy did it. I would have no problem giving death to this guy, if I was on the jury.

FYI,

In Capital Murder cases, a potential juror is not seated unless they agree that they'd be willing to give the death penalty were the man found guilty.

In my view, it should be given out more than it currently is.

 

[Jack Matthews]

The death penalty in the Old Testament was part of the covenant between God and Israel. It was part of a theocratic government. God does not have a covenant with any other nation. The covenant God has today is an individual one, though a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

There are an awful lot of people who post on this board who love to spout prooftexts of scripture, and change the context to fit whatever ideology they are pushing, but I see few people quoting from Matthew 5-7. In fact, lifting some of Paul's words out of their context is popular, but applying what Jesus said, who is the Savior, Son of God and atonement for our sin, doesn't seem to be nearly as popular. Is there anything in what Jesus said that would show his approval of the death penalty or would Jesus want to leave the door open for repentance and forgiveness, even for a murderer?

Grace, people, grace is the foundation of the Christian faith, not legalistic vengeance, hatred and death.

 

[canadyjd]

Christ didn't say a lot of things outright. That's why we have all of scripture.

And scripture tells us to have the same kind of "perfect patience" with the worst of sinners that Jesus demonstrated by showing mercy to the murderer Paul. (I Tim 1:16) Putting someone to death is the opposite of having "perfect patience."

It is called the greater good, folks. The right of all of us to leave free from fear of a single nut outweighs that single nut's right to continue breathing our air.

This is a completely secular view; devoid of any scriptural support.

peace to youraying:

 

[donnA]

While there are earthly consequences for our actions let us not be- little the cross and the taking on of our punishment by Christ. God has punished us and judged us for our actions, Christ was the ultimate sacrifice for our sin.

Jesus paid the price for our sin to be forgiven and us be born again and enter heaven, He did not take away earthy consequences and penalties for our sins. It is quite 2 different things.

 

[donnA]

Respectable people will be lost too if they fail to accept Christ. Whats the difference? Dying of natural causes without Christ may induce more punishment then?

Talk about chasing tails

I don't think it matters how you die if you die without Jesus. The fact some will die without Jesus does not mean we shouldn't hold them responsable for thier crimes.

 

[av1611jim]

And scripture tells us to have the same kind of "perfect patience" with the worst of sinners that Jesus demonstrated by showing mercy to the murderer Paul. (I Tim 1:16) Putting someone to death is the opposite of having "perfect patience."



This is a completely secular view; devoid of any scriptural support.

peace to youraying:

I am soooooo glad you are not a security guard in MY town.
(Sarcasm follows)
Hey! You! Stop! Quit killing that little girl!... Am I too late? Oh that's ok, I forgive you. Now go and sin no more.
(Sarcasm ends)
We have been around this tree before. Your blather STILL has not convinced me. You re-write Scripture and cherry pick to suit your agenda rather than believing God's Holy Book.
You are wrong, and so are all the other liberal softies like you. All one has to do is look at our over crowded prisons and rampant street crime to realize that the liberal "forgive and rehabilitate" mindset has NOT worked. We need to return to a Christian view of Government. That is simply...."Be not deceived, God is not mocked. For Whatsoever a man soweth, THAT shall he also reap" Gal. 6:7.

If'n ya' plant corn, ya gunna git corn.

But obviously that Scripture must not be in YOUR Bible.

 

[donnA]

I am curoius what that has to do with what Donna said.

Thank you Rev Mitchell, because I couldn't figure it out either.

 

[donnA]

What if dna evidence proves someone killed a whole family? Or some other equally heinous crime?

 

[Gold Dragon]

Obviously, my first post was a joke. Of course, Christ never says that we should seek the death of anyone. Christ didn't say we should be against abortion either. He didn't say that homosexuality is wrong. Christ didn't say a lot of things outright. That's why we have all of scripture.

That is some pretty classic back-pedalling. I guess that is a lot easier than being careful about what we say the first time around or admitting we made a mistake.

 

[Jack Matthews]

Christ didn't say a lot of things outright. That's why we have all of scripture.

But, does the rest of scripture "add to" what Christ said, or should it be looked at and interpreted by what Christ said. What you are saying here sounds like scripture is equal to Christ.

Scripture also speaks about grace. The entire book of Galatians is an excellent commentary on the freedom that believers have to walk in Christ. Judging someone who commits a heinous crime, like murder, is certainly the necessary responsibility of the civil government, but a murderer can be forgiven. As Donna says, forgiveness doesn't excuse the consequences of your actions.

On the other hand, it is hard to argue for the sanctity of human life, and cite scriptural support in principle, to prevent the civil government from allowing abortion, then turn around and claim the scripture sanctions the death penalty. The overriding principle of scripture is sanctity of life, how can you apply that in one situation and not in another when the context remains the same?

The other side of this is a practical matter. I'm a lawyer. I have a pretty good idea of the statistics available on the percentages of individuals who have been executed in this country who were innocent. It's not a high percentage, but it happens more frequently than I am comfortable with. We don't have a perfect justice system, and it is extremely hard to argue the merits of the death penalty with a family who has lost a loved one because of a judicial or investigative error. I'm sure they think that's too high of a price to pay for justice. It's pretty calloused to think that, since innocent people die all the time, the lives that are lost in order to execute criminals are just the residual effects of justice. You probably haven't lost a family member that way. I'm using the term innocent in terms of the law and justice, not spiritual condition.

Several years ago, in spite of technological advances that make criminal investigations much more accurate, a crime lab in Harris County, Texas made some grievous errors in the labelling, storing and securing of DNA evidence, resulting, to date, in more than 50 executions of individuals who didn't commit the crimes for which they were convicted and executed. I understand there are still some ongoing investigations, and several individuals have been released from death row. I would not want myself, or one of my precious family members to be the victim of someone elses mistake.

Keep in mind that one innocent life was already sacrificed for all of our sins, and God's grace has made that salvation available to anyone who comes to receive it.

 

[pinoybaptist]

All sin is worthy of death.

True, that is why the sinless had to die for the sinful.

Christ came into the world to save sinners.

And he did save those He came to save. Already.

Would you deny a sinner the right to Salvation?

Salvation is not a right. It is a privilege, if you will, and for lack of a better word. God has the right to worship and obedience. Man, in Adam, denied Him that worship and obedience, therefore man is under God's wrath except he be found in Christ.

Vote for the death penalty then I think you cast your vote for the devil.

You just accused Jehovah of the Old Testament of being in league with the devil. Remember that He instituted the death penalty in Israel, too, for certain offenses.

Judgement is coming. From the Righteous Judge.

Amen to that one.

'Father forgive them, for they know not what they do'

Amen to that one, too.

Do any of us know what we do?

By the grace of God, I am what I am.

Even convicted criminals can repent.

No one denies that, however, if a country, state, or kingdom has the death penalty among its penal laws for certain offenses, then it is equally un Christian, considering the Holy Spirit's instructions to be submissive to government, to demand for the abolition of death penalty.

If it is NOT in the country's, state's, or kingdom's laws, then it is also unChristian to demand its institution.

Ours is to obey God's instructions, and to remember that if we are God's own, then, as the song goes, this world is NOT our home, we're just passing through.

Guess I am a bit soft?

You said that.

 

[Blammo]

Funny how many "pro-life" people are all for the death penalty. Where's the sanctity of life in that?

One of the dumbest points I've heard way too many times. How can you equate the death of a murderer to the death of an innocent child? You should be ashamed of yourself.

I know, I know... you're not.

 

[Blammo]

Actually, it seems wicked and sad that someone who is "pro-abortion" would be against the death penalty.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Actually, it seems wicked and sad that someone who is "pro-abortion" would be against the death penalty.

Perverted, too.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

No, what is really wicked, sad and perverted is people who can only resort to ad hominems rather than making their points with facts.

 

[av1611jim]

Any of you guys/gals who are anti-death penalty care to address Gal. 6:7?
I thought not.

Crickets....chirp....chirp....chirp.


(edited for spelling)

 

[canadyjd]

I am soooooo glad you are not a security guard in MY town.
(Sarcasm follows)
Hey! You! Stop! Quit killing that little girl!... Am I too late? Oh that's ok, I forgive you. Now go and sin no more.
(Sarcasm ends)
We have been around this tree before. Your blather STILL has not convinced me. You re-write Scripture and cherry pick to suit your agenda rather than believing God's Holy Book.
You are wrong, and so are all the other liberal softies like you. All one has to do is look at our over crowded prisons and rampant street crime to realize that the liberal "forgive and rehabilitate" mindset has NOT worked. We need to return to a Christian view of Government. That is simply...."Be not deceived, God is not mocked. For Whatsoever a man soweth, THAT shall he also reap" Gal. 6:7.

If'n ya' plant corn, ya gunna git corn.

But obviously that Scripture must not be in YOUR Bible.

Very easy for you to attack the person and then not address the scripture that has been quoted. Typical of your posts.

peace to youraying:

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Any of you guys/gals who are anti-death penalty care to address Gal. 6:7?
I thought not.

Crickets....chirp....chirp....chirp.


(edited for spelling)

While you are rubbing your legs together to chirp like a cricket, why don't we examine the passage:

7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature[a]will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

In context, verse 7 is not a commandment to exact capital punishment. It is talking about the consequences God allows...basically, what comes around, goes around. It is not speaking of a society executing anyone. In verse 10, we are commanded to do good to all people. I think "all" means even those convicted of heinous crimes. This doesn't preclude legal ramifications, but in no way supports the death penalty.

So tell us, what was your point?

 

[Blammo]

No, what is really wicked, sad and perverted is people who can only resort to ad hominems rather than making their points with facts.

What? What was that? No, really, did you say something?

 

[Magnetic Poles]

What? What was that? No, really, did you say something?

Very intelligent discourse Blam. What is your point?