DEATH: Where do we go when we die?

It is true, the Bible says the dead are fallen asleep and that they dont know anything they are unaware...

1Cor:15:18: Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

1Thes:4:13: But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1Thes:4:15: For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

2Pt:3:4: And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Acts:7:60: And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Mk:5:39: And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.

Lk:8:52: And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.

Jn:11:11-13
These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.

Acts:13:36: For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption

1Cor:11:30: For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

1Cor:15:6: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

1Cor:15:18: Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

1Cor:15:51: Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1Thes:5:10: Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

 

I didnt know Shiloh didnt believe there wasnt a Hell... well there IS a Hell. The Bible talks about it in many places.

but I wouldnt be so crass as to call her a second grader for it though just because she didnt realize that.

Its ok Shiloh. we understand.


*Just messing with the perpetual harrassment task force

 

Oh wait! Now I remember! Shiloh is not only all confused about what SDAs believe about the Sanctuary doctrine but also on our doctrine about Hell.

So she was referring to me...

But I STILL wouldnt be so crass as to refer to her as a Second Grader..

 

When we look at this account in light of other scriptures and in its historical context, it becomes apparent that this is an allegory, a familiar story of the age that Jesus used to point out a spiritual lesson to those who knew the law but did not keep it. It was never intended to be understood literally.

The Victor Bible Background Commentary, New Testament, in discussing this passage, explains that Jesus used contemporary Jewish thought about the afterlife to point out a spiritual lesson:
"Not only was Hades thought to be divided into two compartments, popular belief held that conversations could be held between persons in Gan Eden (the abode of the righteous) and Gehinnom (the abode of the unrighteous). Jewish writings also picture the first as a verdant land with sweet waters welling up from numerous springs, while Gehinnom is not only a parched land, but the waters of the river that separated it from Gan Eden recede whenever the desperately thirsty wicked kneel and try to drink.

"... In Christ's story God was the beggar's only source of help, for the rich man was certainly not going to do a single thing for him! ... It is important to see this parable of Jesus as a continuation of His conflict with the Pharisees over riches. Christ had said, 'You cannot serve God and Money'. When the Pharisees sneered, Jesus responded, 'What is highly valued among men is detestable in God's sight'.

"There's no doubt that the Pharisees remained unconvinced ... And so Christ told a story intended to underline the importance of what He had just said.

"During this life the wealthy man would surely have been featured on the 1980s TV program, 'Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous.' The cameras would have focused on his marble mansion with its decorative wrought iron gates ... and the fabulous feasts he held for his important friends.
"As the TV equipment was taken into the rich man's home, a cameraman might have stumbled over the dying beggar, destitute and abandoned just outside the rich man's house ... Surely he was beneath the notice of the homeowner, who never gave a thought to the starving man just outside, though all Lazarus yearned for was just a crumb from the overladen tables ...

"But then, Jesus says, both men died. And suddenly their situations are reversed! Lazarus is by 'Abraham's side,' a phrase which pictures him reclining in the place of honor at a banquet that symbolizes eternal blessedness. But the rich man finds himself in torment, separated from the place of blessing by a 'great chasm'. Even though he begs for just one drop of water, Abraham sadly shakes his head. No relief is possible-or appropriate!

"... The rich man had received his good things, and had used them selfishly for his benefit alone ... This rich man's indifference to Lazarus showed how far his heart was from God and how far his path had strayed from God's ways. They were his riches, and he would use them only for himself ...
"And so Jesus' first point is driven home. You Pharisees simply cannot love God and Money. Love for Money is detestable to God, for you will surely be driven to make choices
in life which are hateful to Him ...

"But Jesus does not stop here. He portrays the rich man as appealing to Abraham to send Lazarus to warn his brothers, who live as selfishly as he did. Again Abraham refuses. They have 'Moses and the Prophets', that is, the Scriptures. If they do not heed the Scriptures they will not respond should one come back from the dead ...

"In essence then Christ makes a stunning charge: the hardness and unwillingness of the Pharisees and teachers of the Law to Jesus' words reflect a hardness to the Word of God itself, which these men pretend to honor ...

"This entire chapter calls us to realize that if we take this reality seriously, it will affect the way we view and use money, and the way we respond to the poor and the oppressed" (Lawrence Richards, QuickVerse software, 1992-1998).

 

1. Abrahams Bosom is not in heaven
Hebrews 11:8-10,16

2. People in hell cannot talk to those in heaven
Isaiah 65:17

3. The dead are in their graves
Job 17:13;John 5:28,29

The rich man was in bodily form with eyes, a tongue, etc but we know the body does not go to hell at death. The body remains in the grave.

4. Men are rewarded at Christ's second coming, not at death Revelation 22:11,12

If we take this parable literally then we must believe that trees talk (Judges 9:8-15)


it is just an allegory to make a point

 

THE THIEF ON THE CROSS


This is often used to try to say that right when the theif on the cross died, he went straight to heaven... but we have to harmonize the scriptures and take a deeper look at them...

In answering the petition of the thief on the cross, what promise did the Saviour make him?
"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with Me in Paradise." Luke 23:43.

What was really the thief's request?
"And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into Thy kingdom." Luke 23:42.

What did He say to Mary on the day of His resurrection?
"Jesus saith unto her, Touch Me not; for I am not yet ascended to My Father." John 20:17.

NOTE. - This was the third day after the promise to the thief, and yet Christ could say He had not been to Paradise since His crucifixion. As no one can for a moment question the truthfulness of the Saviour on either of these occasions, we must look for harmony between His statement, though it may be at the sacrifice of previously cherished opinions.
To make His promise emphatic, the Saviour said: "Verily I say unto thee today." A simple change of the comma from before "today," placing it immediately after that word, solves the whole difficulty that may exist in any candid mind, and harmonizes all the scriptures on this point; and this is allowable, since Inspiration has nothing to do with the punctuation of the Scriptures. That is of human origin and modern invention, and should never establish the meaning of any scripture, contrary to its harmony with other passages.
-Bible Readings for the Home, a very old non-copyrighted bible study book

 

Actually I regard myself as a First Grader in Spiritual knowledge and I believe that no matter how someone treats you, that you ought to act as Jesus would have acted toward them.

And even though Shiloh, for whatever reason, keeps on haranging me at all the threads, (cant exactly figure out why as of yet on that) I feel that I ought to be either ignorning them or saying something nice back to them, which I have put them on ignore but sometimes I am tempted to do the "View Post" thing and read what they say then I put some sort of a sarcastic remark back to them of which I am not proud of doing. Well actually when I do it and for a time afterwards I feel proud of what I have said but I shouldnt.

In reality we shouldnt worry about defending ourselves. Our concern ought to always be to reflect Christ to others and I havent done a very good job of it where Shiloh my "thorn in the flesh" is concerned. I prayed he (didnt know it was a he till now, sorry I called them a she) would just go away but they dont so now I regard them as my "thorn in the flesh" that God allows to be kept around to keep me humble... but as of yet I havent been that humble as I ought to of been.

I will not even read what they said about me this time... just keep on the ignore thing so I wont be tempted to reply back in a sarcastic way.

well I hope that all made sense and now later today I will get back hopefully to just posting some stuff on the "State of the Dead" and what happens when we die. And I apologize to everyone for my previous lack of unselfish responses to this person. I feel if someone is cantankerous that that is all the more they need our love and understanding. But the most I can manage right now is putting them on ignore so I wont be tempted to reply back in a sarcastic manner, so Im sorry for my lack of ability to take the high road right now.


*And now back to our regularly scheduled programming, sorry for the interruption

 

Here are a couple of other things to think about till later when I post some more stuff:

But are not the righteous dead in heaven?
"For David is not ascended into the heavens." Acts 2:34.


What was the only thing with which David would be satisfied?
"As for me, I will behold Thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with Thy likeness." Ps. 17:15.


at the second coming of Christ is when we get our REWARD:

Rv:22:12: And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.





THINK about this.. read and re-read it:

If there should never be an awakening of the dead, what would be the result?
"For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised; and if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished." 1 Cor. 15:16-18.

If for four thousand years the righteous had gone directly to heaven at death, how could Paul have said that if there is no resurrection, [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished"? No resurrection would be necessary. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The martyr Tyndale, referring to the state of the dead, declared: "I confess openly, that I am not persuaded that they be already in the full glory that Christ is in, or the elect angels of God are in. Neither is it any article of my faith; for if it were so, I see not but then the preaching of the resurrection of the flesh were a thing in vain."--William Tyndale, Preface to New Testament (ed. 1534). Reprinted in British Reformers--Tindal, Frith, Barnes, page 349. [/FONT]


And let me try to explain something to you all. it isnt as if I am trying to take away your hope of eternal life here. What you need to realize though is our hope is NOT at time of death. Our hope as Christians is AT THE RESURRECTION DAY! THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST!!! On that glorious day...

...and it will seem to us as if we had only been in the grave a mere moment because we will have been asleep and think of being raised TOGETHER with your loved ones and your brethren in Christ! THIS is when we put on immortality and incorruption! This is our Hope, what we are waiting for!!! Just ONE of the things that Christians are being robbed of by this false doctrine that came from the Catholic Church saying we die and go straight to Heaven at time of death.. is the doctrine of the Second Coming of Christ and the Resurrection Day and what that means to us as Christians!!!

1Cor:15:52: In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.



By what figure does the Bible represent death?

"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope." 1 Thess. 4:13 (1 Cor. 15:18, 20) (John 11:11-14).​

NOTE. - In sound sleep one is wholly lost to consciousness; time goes by unmeasured; and the functions of the mental organs are suspended for the time being.​

Where do the dead sleep?

"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake." Dan. 12:2.​

How long will they sleep there?​

"So man lieth down, and riseth not, till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Job. 14:12.​

What must take place before Job could expect to awake?​

"If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will wait, till my change come." Job 14:14.​

​

 

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]Absent from the Body[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]Upon what subject does Paul treat in 2 Cor. 5:1-8?
"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens." 2 Cor. 5:1.
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times]NOTE. - In this verse the present and future condition of the believer is spoken of .[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]While we are here "in our earthly house," in "this tabernacle," that is in this present mortal state, what is our condition?
"For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven." "For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened; not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life." 2 Cor. 5:2, 4.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]Where else does the apostle express the same fact?
"For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now." Rom. 8:22.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]How many conditions, or states of being, does the apostle bring to view?
Three: First, a positive state in this present life clothed with "our earthly house" (2 Cor. 5:1.), "this tabernacle" (2 Cor. 5:4); second, a negative state, called in verse 3 "unclothed" or "naked," that is, when in death, in the grave; third, another positive condition, when mortality is swallowed up of life, when we are clothed upon with our house from heaven (verses 2, 4).[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]Which one of these conditions did the apostle wait for and desire?
"For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven." 2 Cor. 5:2.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]What disclaimer does he utter concerning the second or middle state?
"Not for that we would be unclothed." 2 Cor. 5:4.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]How is it proved that Paul looked forward to the resurrection, when he expressed a desire to be clothed upon with the house from heaven?
By the parallel text in Rom. 8:23: "And not only thy, but ourselves also, which have the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body." [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]When is the body to be redeemed?
"For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel. and with the trump of God; and dead in Christ shall rise first." 1 Thess. 4:16. See Phil. 3:20, 21.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]When is mortality to be swallowed up of life?
"Behold, I show you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump; for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." 1 Cor. 15:51-53.
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times]NOTE.- To be "naked," or "unclothed," must refer to one's condition in death. But how can it be said that one is unclothed, if he is a conscious, disembodied spirit, instantly enters the heavenly abode at death? It can be plainly seen that if an immortal soul is the "house from heaven," when the "earthly" house, the body, has been redeemed, an individual would have two houses, one more than he would have occasion for. Then again, if the second house is the supposed immortal soul, and one had it now in possession in his body, it could not be true that it is, "eternal in the heavens." On the whole it is evident that the apostle is here treating of the future redeemed body.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]If the house from heaven is the future redeemed immortal body, how can it be said that, "we have" it?
"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son." 1 John 5:11. Hence, "he that hath the Son hath life." 1 John 5:12.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]When, only, is a person fitted to be present with the Lord?
Not till he is redeemed from all that is mortal and corruptible. 1 Cor. 15:50; 1 Thess. 4:17.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]To what condition, then, does the apostle refer by the words (2 Cor. 5:6), "At home in the body?"
To the first condition spoken of in verse 1.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]To what condition does he refer by the expression, "To be present with the Lord?"
To the third condition. They are not necessarily immediately connected. Some time may elapse between them, as we have shown.[/FONT]
-Bible Readings for the Home, a really old non-copyrighted bible study book​

 

JUST READ:

Said the prophet Isaiah: "Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead."

"Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise."

"He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of His people shall He take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it. And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for Him, and He will save us: this is the Lord; we have waited for Him, we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation." Isaiah 26:19; 25:8, 9.


About His coming cluster the glories of that "restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began." Acts 3:21. Then the long-continued rule of evil shall be broken; "the kingdoms of this world" will become "the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever." Revelation 11:15. "The glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together." "The Lord God will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations." He shall be "for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of His people." Isaiah 40:5; 61:11; 28:5.


When the Thessalonian Christians were filled with grief as they buried their loved ones, who had hoped to live to witness the coming of the Lord, Paul, their teacher, pointed them to the resurrection, to take place at the Saviour's advent. Then the dead in Christ should rise, and together with the living be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. "And so," he said, "shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words." 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18.

 

jellyfish not gelly fish