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Featured Deity of Christ presented in English Bible translations

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Logos1560, Feb 9, 2019.

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  1. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Several pre-1611 English Bibles and many post-1611 English Bibles clearly, precisely, and accurately identify Jesus Christ as "our God and Saviour" at 2 Peter 1:1. William Tyndale in 1534, Miles Coverdale in 1535, and John Rogers in 1537 translated the last part of this verse as "righteousness that cometh of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ." In his 1538 Latin-English New Testament, Miles Coverdale rendered it “righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ.” The 1539 Great Bible, 1557 Whittingham's New Testament, 1560 Geneva Bible, 1568 Bishops' Bible, 1576 Tomson’s New Testament, 1657 Haak’s English translation of the Dutch Bible, 1755 Wesley's New Testament, 1842 Baptist or Bernard's, 1862 Young’s Literal Translation, 1866 American Bible Union Version, 1982 NKJV, 1994 Majority Text Interlinear, and other English translations render it "righteousness of our God and Saviour [or Savior] Jesus Christ." Thomas Goodwin maintained that “[Theodore] Beza reads it, ‘our God and our Saviour Jesus Christ,’” and that “it clearly meant one person, viz. Christ” (Works, VIII, p. 283).

    At 2 Peter 1:1, the 2005 Cambridge edition of the KJV has this note taken from the standard 1762 Cambridge edition: “Gr. of our God and Saviour.” KJV editions printed at Oxford in 1810, 1821, 1835, 1857, 1865, 1868, and 1885, and at Cambridge in 1769, 1844, 1872, and 1887 also have this same note indicating the accurate translation and meaning of the Greek. An earlier KJV edition printed in London in 1711 had the same note and a cross reference to Titus 2:13. Granville Sharp observed: “In the margin of our present version the proper reading is ‘of our God and Saviour,‘ manifestly referring both titles to one person” (Remarks, p. 22). Concerning 2 Peter 1:1 in the Westminster Annotations printed in 1645, this note was also given: “Gr. Of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ.” Thus, the Bible scholars at the Westminster Assembly agreed with the pre-1611 English Bible translators and the editors of some standard KJV editions. Concerning 2 Peter 1:1 in a sermon printed in 1722, Edmund Calamy maintained that “the very construction of the words seems plainly to intimate that Jesus Christ is our God, as well as our Saviour” (Thirteen Sermons, p. 41).

    James D. Price noted that “the Greek grammatical construction here identifies Jesus Christ as God and Savior” (King James Onlyism, p. 323). Concerning this verse in his multi-volume commentary, KJV defender David Sorenson wrote: “Though it is not quite as evident in English, in the Received Text, the phrase literally reads, ‘the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ’” (p. 228). Kenneth Wuest asserted: “The expression, ‘God and our Saviour’ is in a construction in the Greek text which demands that we translate, ‘our God and Saviour, Jesus Christ” (In These Last Days, p. 17). John Ankerberg and John Weldon maintained that “Greek scholars Dana and Mantley, in their A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament, confirm the truth of Sharp’s rule, and then explain: ‘Second Peter 1:1 … means that Jesus is our God and Savior” (Facts On Jehovah’s Witnesses, p. 24).

    John Dagg indicated that the rendering in our common English version at 2 Peter 1:1 should be emended to “the righteousness of our God and Saviour, Jesus Christ” (Manual of Theology, pp. 183-184). Timothy Dwight (1752-1817) wrote: “According to the original, of our God and Saviour, Jesus Christ” (Theology Explained, I, p. 525). Thomas Goodwin contended that “as by God and the Father is meant God the Father so by God and our Saviour is meant Jesus Christ” (Works, VIII, p. 283). In his commentary on 1 and 2 Peter, Gordon Clark translated the phrase as “of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ” (New Heavens, New Earth, p. 170). Clark noted: “Other references to ‘our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ’ do not diminish the deity asserted here in 1:1” (p. 171). At his verse, the MacArthur Study Bible stated concerning “our God and Savior Jesus Christ:” The Greek construction has only one article before this phrase, making the entire phrase refer to the same person” (p. 1952). At this phrase at this verse, The Henry Morris Study Bible stated: “This expression could better be rendered as ‘our God and Saviour Jesus Christ’” (p. 1947). In his commentary on 2 Peter & Jude, John MacArthur noted: “The Greek construction places just one article before the phrase God and Savior, which makes both terms refer to the same person. Thus Peter identifies Jesus, not just as Savior, but as God (cf. 1:11; 2:20, 3:2, 18; Isa. 43:3, 11:45, 21; 60:16; Rom. 9:5; Col. 2:9; Titus 2:13; Heb. 1:8), the author and agent of salvation. The apostle made the same relation clear in his Pentecost sermon, in which he took the Old Testament truth of God and applied it to Jesus (Acts 2:21-36; cf. Matt. 1:21; Acts 4:12; 5:31)” (p. 23).


    Surprisingly, the 1611 edition of the KJV has a comma after God at 2 Peter 1:1 [God, and our Saviour Jesus Christ], and that comma seems to have remained in most KJV editions printed up to the 1769 Oxford edition.
    The 1743 Cambridge and 1760 Cambridge editions had actually removed it before the 1769. Even the first KJV edition printed in America in 1782 and KJV editions printed at Oxford in 1788 and in 1795 still have a comma after God at 2 Peter 1:1. KJV-only defenders ignore or avoid the fact of this comma being in KJV editions at 2 Peter 1:1 for over one hundred years. How does this comma in most KJV editions up to the 1769 Oxford affect the understanding and interpretation of this verse? Concerning this verse in his 1633 commentary on 2 Peter, Thomas Adams observed: “Some read these words by disjoining them; of God, and of our Saviour,“ which would seem to refer to the rendering in the 1611. In his commentary on several books of the Bible including 2 Peter, Thomas Holland attempted to defend the rendering in the KJV as he asserted: “While the phrase our God and Savior Jesus Christ is a clear testimony to Christ’s deity, the phrase God and our Savior Jesus Christ likewise has reference to God and Savior being the same person, namely Jesus Christ” (p. 289).
     
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  2. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    As I've learned to do with this poster, I checked on his representations.
    Oops...not surprisingly look what I found:

    Coverdale 1535
    3802_dc1b99ddc897a3252ecf5bebc924c37f.jpg
     
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  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The best modern versions agree on this point also! That Peter and Paul was calling Jesus our great God and our Savior...
     
  4. Heretic Hunter

    Heretic Hunter Active Member

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    Great work Jerome! I liken this action to a Magician's card trick, where in essense, he divines a lie and says to the unsuspecting crowd, "See my thumb? Gee you're dumb!", and the unlearned and unstable are easily swayed, and feverishly clap like monkeys to the antichrist tricks of the deceiver.

    On that same note, I can cite numerous accounts of how the Watchtower Society of Jehovah's Witnesses play the "comma" trick in wide varieties of instances, for their Gnostic re-write of the Bible for their N.W.T., including the denial of the Deity of The Lord Jesus Christ.

    Now, with that said, I want to point out something very obvious here, as this thread was made, after, and on the heals of another thread that was recently closed, in which it was pointed out that Occultists, such as the JWs, and S.D.A. use a barrage of so-called "Modern Translations" that in fact deny the Deity of Christ in their deliberate and deceitful mis-translation of Phil 2:6, where I provided "smoking gun evidence" of another poster that is a S.D.A. Millerite caught in the very act of denying the Deity of The Lord Jesus Christ; also denying The Holy Trinity, and get this now, using the Gnostic Perversions of the Bible to establish the antichrist heresy! The very same practice that is done by the Jehovah's Witnesses! And if I didn't mention this here, in conjuction with your findings, there might would be some Brethren that would otherwise have overlooked these facts, if they did not see, or follow the discussion on the other thread that preceded this one. For the sake of full transparency, I will provide a link to that thread, of which all can review the full context of, as well as a copy of the very post that exposes the Satanic Gnostic agenda to deceive the masses, by conning the People out of The Holy Bible, and replacing them with the Gnostic Perversions to further dumb them down, as the workers of iniquity are feverishly working toward the One World Religion with the mixing of these False Prophets of Jezebel, such as been the case with Ravi Zacharias and the Mormons; Marylin Hickey and Jorge (Pope Francis) with the Muslims, and others with S.D.A., not to mention the blending in of Hinduism and Buddhism with the Satanic practice of Yoga, which is the express worship of the Devil into the Churches.


    This is the link to the thread:
    What brings unity among brethren?

    The copy of the post per the S.D.A. Millerite will follow after this post.
     
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  5. Heretic Hunter

    Heretic Hunter Active Member

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    This is the False Prophet Watchtower Society of Jehovah's Witnesses' Gnostic perverted rewrite of Phil 2:6 "6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. " -New World Translation (N.W.T.)

    Yeah, it's 100% blasphemy! AND the Watchtower also denies the bodily ressurection of Jesus Christ; they also blasphemously teach their "other jesus" to be Abaddon, of which is another name for Satan, as they simultaneously teach their "other jesus" to be "a god" with their rewrite of John 1:1 and "Michael the Archangel" by the continuous wresting of the Scriptures.

    I posted evidence of these blasphemies of the Watchtower Society on another thread, where another man teaches the same blasphemy here on the BB Forum: The MOST IMPORTANT observation that we need to make here is the "running to the Greek" to wrest the Scriptures; This is the very act and practice of Gnostism! This is what the S.D.A., the JWs, and other aspects of the Occult do to redefine and/or wrest the words to take on different meanings to fit their antichrist heresies. I have seen much worse, but this is a provided sample that should wake us all up to how the practice of Gnostism has crept in the Churches to become a "norm" as multitudes are seduced by doctrines of devils with the damnable heresies of the Occult, including the blending with the mixing of these false prophets. Here is the link to that thread:
    Christ's Return: Spiritual or Physical?
     
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  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    You do know that the Niv 1984, Nasv/ESV actually support the Deity of Jesus more strongly even then the Kjv does?
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    And the Kjv 1611 is the only Translation to avoid any mistranslation then?
     
  8. Heretic Hunter

    Heretic Hunter Active Member

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    The Gnostics HATE The Holy Bible a.k.a. King James Bible 1611 and because of their infiltration and heavy saturation into the Churches, is the very reason why we are experiencing the antichrist spiritual warfare to undermine The Holy Bible! They are doing this for the purpose of blending the world religions, as we are seeing happening before our eyes. They are feverishly working to provoke The Lord to anger for the ushering in of the Antichrist! These are their antichrist fruits! They hate The Lord Jesus Christ; They hate Christians; and they hate The Holy Bible!
     
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  9. Forever Settled

    Forever Settled Active Member

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    You maybe starting to see the light ......but I doubt it.
     
    #9 Forever Settled, Feb 9, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
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  10. Forever Settled

    Forever Settled Active Member

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    Yes and in another thread here on the BB .........some blinded false teachers think satan is a type of Christ ! But as you point out they are greekin’ and twisting. Sad and shocking.
     
    #10 Forever Settled, Feb 9, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
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  11. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    The KJV is not actually the Holy Bible given by inspiration of God to the prophets and apostles. The KJV is a Bible translation in the same sense as the pre-1611 English Bibles and as post-1611 English Bibles such as the NKJV. The KJV does not teach your modern, human, subjective, non-scriptural KJV-only reasoning/philosophy. Assuming your claims by use of fallacies such as begging the question would not be a compelling case for your modern view.

    You fail to prove your allegations and claims to be true.
     
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  12. Heretic Hunter

    Heretic Hunter Active Member

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    That is NOT true. The Jehovah's Witnesses are very well trained in spiritual warfare, and know exactly which mis-translated srciptures, to use, in each of those Gnostic Persions to deny the Deity of Christ, teach against The Holy Trinity, to beguile the minds of the masses. Collectively, the S.D.A., JWs, and Mormons have a combined total of deceived adherents of more than 60 million. Of those 60 million "members" consist of many millions of people that were once Baptists. Now take a moment to stew on those staggering statistics with the realization of their tools and tactics. They brag for being "well organized" like a "well oiled machine". That's more than 60 MILLION people that are DECEIVED into believing "another jesus" that is not Jesus, but is Satan! They all use the tricks of the Devil to deceive the masses!
     
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  13. Heretic Hunter

    Heretic Hunter Active Member

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    Did you get your sheepskin adjusted to cover those big ears? :Devilish
     
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  14. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    It is modern, non-scriptural, erroneous KJV-only reasoning that is not true. Your acceptance of modern KJV-only reasoning could call into question whether you know soundly how to distinguish between what is true and what is not.
     
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  15. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    What you found does not necessarily change the point. It has not been demonstrated that a comma after our God would affect the interpretation and understanding of the verse in the same way that a comma after the God, and before our Savour could. A comma after "our God" does not suggest that the verse is referring to two persons as a comma after "the God" and before "our Saviour" could. A believer in the early 1600's pointed out how the interpretation could be affected by the comma in the 1611. Concerning this verse in his 1633 commentary on 2 Peter, Thomas Adams observed: “Some read these words by disjoining them; of God, and of our Saviour,“ which would seem to refer to the rendering in the 1611.
     
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  16. Forever Settled

    Forever Settled Active Member

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    Busted......now backpedaling.
     
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  17. Heretic Hunter

    Heretic Hunter Active Member

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    I agree with you. There are several that teach "another jesus", and they have demonstrated the hatred for The Holy Bible in their antichrist propaganda! I have posted two smoking gun examples as concrete evidence on this thread. The question that we must ask now, is "Why is this evidence being willfully ignored by the Author of this thread?" along with "What is the motive, if it is not to deceive?" and "Where is the repentance and willingness to discuss this factual evidence?"
     
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  18. Forever Settled

    Forever Settled Active Member

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    What you point out confirms this thread has nothing to do with getting to the truth.

    The thread has a Different motive that any reasonable person can see.
     
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  19. Heretic Hunter

    Heretic Hunter Active Member

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    Would you like to see dozens of examples of "comma" (TRICKS) arguments made by the Watchtower Society of Jehovah's Witnesses to undermine what is written in The Holy Bible as they wrest the scriptures to teach doctrines of devils? As I said before, your arguments are not your own. They originated with the Satanic Gnostics of Occult!
     
  20. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Do you deliberately attempt to violate forum rules as you in effect disobey Scripture and bear false witness by falsely trying to suggest that I supposedly am a wolf in sheep's clothing?

    I
     
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