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Delta variant becoming Delta 4+, and the vaccines then enhance infections

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by Scott Downey, Sep 18, 2021.

  1. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    Well interesting Japanese study talks of a further variant of Delta that escapes the vaccine, and worse enhances the infection in those who are vaxxed.

    In short, while Pfizer’s Covid-19 jab still neutralized the Delta variant, when four common mutations were introduced to the RBD, the vaccine lost the ability to neutralize the variant and instead enhanced its infectivity.

    BREAKING: Study Finds the Current Covid-19 Vaccines Will Cause ‘Vaccine Induced Enhanced Disease’ When Infected With Delta (humansarefree.com)

    This has been one of the concerns, that a variant would mutate itself into a super disease causing organism when combined with the covid vaccine.

    If this is the coming reality, what a setup for the covid vaccinated. However it can also mutate into something else again too.

    The Japanese study
    The SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant is poised to acquire complete resistance to wild-type spike vaccines | bioRxiv

    Latest Data: Mortality Rate from Delta Variant About EIGHT TIMES Higher in 'Fully Vaccinated' Individuals (humansarefree.com)
     
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  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    The Japanese study was on the lambda variant. It concluded that the vaccine may be effective in preventing serious infections but this effectiveness is much lower. (The virus seems to to evade the protection of the vaccines causing a rise in breakthrough cases).

    What it did not find is that the vaccine somehow enhances the virus (that part is misinformation in the article quoted in the OP).
     
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    The most interesting thing learned from the source relied upon in the OP is that our ancestors might have known the secret to levitation (posted last week).

    I mean, that is cool....just floating around on air.

    That said, always judge an article by its source and a member posting by the sources he believes reliable.
     
  4. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    You missed this part in that study, which was being referred to in the article.

    Although Pfizer-BioNTech BNT162b2-immune sera neutralized the Delta variant, when four common mutations were introduced into the receptor binding domain (RBD) of the Delta variant (Delta 4+), some BNT162b2-immune sera lost neutralizing activity and enhanced the infectivity.
     
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  5. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    The inherent bias in a person, wont let them see things that are grossly contrary to their own perceptions of reality.
    And they become informed by their own experiences with things, like this vaccine...

    My own inherent bias, is I did not trust for example the ridiculous original response to this disease, compared to the actual death rate, knowing the agenda of the elite is world wide dominance, and control, i.e. the globalism which I was informed of by the words coming from many people in places such as the UN, and the WEF, and what the politicians actually do.

    My feeling is those who say there is nothing wrong, bad or sinister about the response, are informed by the idea of 'I took the vaccine and nothing bad happened to me, so any other story is BS, to be discredited.'
     
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  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    That is not what was claimed in the OP. It makes sense to me that inefectivity would be enhanced as a vaccine lost neutralizing activity.

    BUT the claim was that vaccines enhance infections- which is a misrepresentation of the study and what was actually stated.


    “Although Pfizer-BioNTech BNT162b2-immune sera neutralized the Delta variant, when four common mutations were introduced into the receptor binding domain (RBD) of the Delta variant (Delta 4+), some BNT162b2-immune sera lost neutralizing activity and enhanced the infectivity,” the study states."

    Future Delta Variant Mutations Seem to Elude Vaccine Antibodies
     
  7. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    I wonder what part about 'Enhanced the infectivity' referring to Pfizer-Biontech escapes you!!
    You'r so obtuse. Never admit it either will you.

    Well people do have a brain, and can read it and know it same as myself.
     
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  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I believe the negative and positive results should be made known. It appears many have been saved by the vaccine but others have died. A fair person would acknowledge both.

    My problem is when claims are made based on misrepresenting sources (like this OP). But there are risks with the vaccines and the future of their effectiveness is questionable.

    I just don't want people not taking a vaccine, or taking one, based on misinformation.let their choice be based on good information.
     
  9. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    Beware of the double speak here on this forum
    Doublespeak
    Doublespeak is language that deliberately obscures, disguises, distorts, or reverses the meaning of words. Doublespeak may take the form of euphemisms (e.g., "downsizing" for layoffs and "servicing the target" for bombing), in which case it is primarily meant to make the truth sound more palatable. It may also refer to intentional ambiguity in language or to actual inversions of meaning. In such cases, doublespeak disguises the nature of the truth.
     
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  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    The article tells you, dude.

    The infectivity with the vaccine increases (there are more "breakthrough" cases).

    It does not mean the vaccine gives the virus a boost :Laugh .
     
  11. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    Still twisting the words in that sentence, other people JonC can read it for themselves and know what's up.
     
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  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Yes. Everybody needs to read the article and determine for themselves.

    It is ultimately an issue of reading comprehension and we both cannot be correct.

    Future Delta Variant Mutations Seem to Elude Vaccine Antibodies

    Does the mutation elude antibodies or does the vaccine boost the virus?
     
  13. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    BNT162b2-immune sera (Pfizer vaccine), lost neutralizing activity (vaccine no longer neutralizing covid virus) and enhanced the infectivity, (vaccine enhanced ability of the virus to infect cells) ” the study states."

    Enhance does not mean PASSIVE. It infers an active situation.
    Break it down into the meaning of the words in that statement to understand what it means.

    enhance
    [inˈhans, enˈhans]
    VERB
    1. intensify, increase, or further improve the quality, value, or extent of.
    So the vaccine enhances the infectivity, the vaccine intensifies, increases, improves the ability of the virus to infect.
     
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  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Yes, the lost neutralizing activity enhances infection in the study. In other words, as the neutralizing activity decreases infection increases.

    Read the whole article.
     
  15. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    This is an important point worth analyzing. If the sentence in question is improperly worded, then that should be thoroughly explained with other citations from the study.

    But it does not make sense that infectivity would be enhanced because of lost neurtralizing activity.

    It might make sense that infectivity would be allowed to increase on its own as in unvaccinated cases, in which case nothing more need be said.

    But that is not at all the same as enhancing infectivity, which is what was actually stated as happening in addition to losing neutralizing activity.

    The “and” refers to “some BNT162b2-immune sera” associating both actions with it, that is, with losing neutralizing activity and with enhancing the infectivity.

    Thus,

    “…some BNT162b2-immune sera lost neutralizing activity…”

    “and” that same

    “…[some BNT162b2-immune sera] enhanced the infectivity….”
     
  16. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    From the study :

    Moreover, we and others have recently demonstrated that antibodies against a specific
    site on the NTD can enhance the infectivity of SARS-CoV-2 by inducing the open form of the
    RBD (Li et al., 2021; Liu et al., 2021b).​

    One section is headed:

    Enhanced infectivity of the Delta 4+ pseudovirus by some BNT162b2-immune sera.

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.22.457114v1.full.pdf
     
  17. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Two excerpts from the study:


    Surprisingly, most BNT162b2-immune sera enhanced infectivity of the Delta 4+ pseudovirus in a dose-dependent manner at relatively low concentrations of BNT162b2-immune sera, but showed weak neutralization only at the highest concentration of the sera (Figure 6D and 6E). Especially, PFZ7 greatly enhanced the infectivity at relatively low serum concentration. Some sera, such as PFZ13 and PFZ14, did not show neutralizing activity even at the highest concentration of the sera. The neutralizing titers of PFZ13 and PFZ14 against wild-type or Delta variant were apparently lower than others (Figure 2A). On the other hand, PFZ15 effectively neutralized the Delta 4+ pseudovirus, but the neutralizing titers of PFZ15 against the wild type and Delta variant were not particularly high compared to the others. Because most neutralizing antibodies against either NTD or RBD do not work for the Delta 4+ pseudovirus, while most enhancing antibodies remain functional for the Delta 4+ pseudovirus, the increased infectivity in the presence of BNT162b2-immune sera appears to be mediated by anti-NTD enhancing antibodies.


    Therefore, additional immunization of the spike protein derived from SARS-CoV-2 variants may boost enhancing antibodies more than the neutralizing antibodies in individuals who were previously infected with wild-type SARS-CoV-2 or immunized with vaccines composed of wild-type spike protein. Immunization using the RBD alone, which will not induce anti-NTD enhancing antibodies, could be a strategy for a vaccination. However, anti-NTD neutralizing antibodies that protect against SARS-CoV-2 infection similar to anti-RBD-neutralizing antibodies are not induced by immunization by RBD alone (Chi et al., 2020; Li et al., 2021 ; Liu et al., 2020; Suryadevara et al., 2021; Voss et al., 2021). Whole spike protein containing RBD mutations observed in major variants but lacking the enhancing antibody epitopes may need to be considered as a booster vaccine.​
     
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  18. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Are you being an evil fool again and intentionally posting misinformation?
     
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  19. nonaeroterraqueous

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    Yes, that's clearly a discussion of neutralizing versus non-neutralizing antibodies, which is of prime concern when discussing antibody-dependent enhancement. Jon was twisting the meaning of the words, again.
     
  20. nonaeroterraqueous

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    Read...the...article.

    "Enhancing antibodies increase the infectivity of SARS-CoV-2 by inducing the open form of the RBD (Liu et al., 2021b)."

    "These data suggested that the Delta variant completely escaped from anti-NTD neutralizing antibodies while maintaining functional enhancing antibody epitopes."
     
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