Depression

I suppose people could be genetically predisposed to being overweight but thy don’t have to be overweight. They would have to work harder but they could be thin as a rail.

On the other side of the coin, you could be genetically predisposed to being thin, but have grown up in a household that has bad eating habits and therefore be fat as a butterball.


Could that scenario parallel depression?

 

"Ok, so assuming that the seratonin level is out of balance in a depressed person, could the imbalance be a result of the depression?"

I suppose so. I don't know to be honest, but who is to say that medication cannot help?

I mean do you really want to walk up to someone who is chronically depressed and tell them being on medication is unchristian like? I think we need to use common sense here. If a person can make it without medication, that is the best way to go, but if medication is really needed, then they should be on it.

Until Next Post, Adam

 

Adam,

The issue is not: Do medicines make the depression go away? Of course they do.

The issue for the believer is: If the depression is not medical in nature but is rather functional (to use Thomas's term), do you solve a spiritual problem with a physical means? The answer is no. The answer to unbiblical thought processes is not drugs; it is repentance.

Would you treat cancer by placing a bandaid over the cancerous spot? Of course not -- It wouldn't work.

Assuming that numbness or pain in the left arm is indeed a sign of heart trouble (as I have heard), do we simply rest the arm or take an aspirin to dull the pain or do we go and treat the real problem? Of course we should treat the real problem.

When we fail to treat the real problem in functional depression, we only prolong the problem rather than solving it. Solving can be tough but it is the right approach.

 

Any individual on medication for depression must be tested prior to recieving medication otherwise they do not recieve the medication.

There are quite a number of people in my area who suffer from depression which is a chemical imbalance. It is also very difficult to determine the level of drug which must be taken in order to help the person out. Normally an individual must take the medication for a total of 2-3 weeks or even a month to see if there are any side effects from the medication and if he or she is on the correct ammount to help them.

Sue

 

"The issue for the believer is: If the depression is not medical in nature but is rather functional (to use Thomas's term), do you solve a spiritual problem with a physical means? The answer is no. The answer to unbiblical thought processes is not drugs; it is repentance."

Dear Pastor Larry,

Of course if it is not a chemical problem you don't treat it with drugs. Any number of things may be causing it though. It may not be sin. Lack of self-esteem for example.

I guess for the most part we are on the same page on this one.

Until Next Post, Adam

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Of course if it is not a chemical problem you don't treat it with drugs. Any number of things may be causing it though. It may not be sin. Lack of self-esteem for example. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Anything causing it that is not organic is a sinful thought process. There are no other options. Lack of self-esteem may be the most unbiblical reason that could be given. Depression is not caused by lack of self-esteem but rather by too much self-esteem. We could depressed about our situation because we think we deserve better than we have. We do not get depressed when we think we have better than we deserve. We only get depressed when we think we are above the circumstances that we find ourselves in. This is another issue that is way more controversial than it should be. However, I will not get started on the topic of self-esteem.

 

Just an interesting footnote to this discussion: the makers of Paxil - a highly prescribed SSRI used to treat depression and some panic disorders - is being sued because of the side-effects associated with coming off of the drug. Granted, this may be a case where the users did not come off the drug as directed, but it does show further proof of the dangers of giving SSRIs to people who may not necessarily need them.

 

Suit: Paxil Is Addictive

.c The Associated Press

LOS ANGELES (Aug. 25) - A lawsuit contends the manufacturer of the popular anti-depressant Paxil concealed evidence that the drug can be addictive.

The lawsuit was filed Friday on behalf of 35 people from around the country who say they suffered symptoms ranging from electric-like shocks to suicidal thoughts after discontinuing use of the drug.

The lawsuit, which seeks class-action status and unspecified damages, says GlaxoSmithkline PLC concealed the possibility of physical and psychological withdrawal symptoms from the drug. It alleges fraud, deceit, negligence, liability, and breach of warranty.

There was no immediate comment from the British-based company. Calls to its U.S. offices after business hours Friday were not returned.

Introduced on the U.S. market in 1992, Paxil is the country's second-largest selling anti-depressant.

Paul Domb, 42, of Miami, said that after he stopped taking Paxil last year, he suffered from convulsions, night sweats, and suicidal thoughts for about six weeks.

He said he thought the problems had to do with recent heart surgery, but after researching his symptoms he concluded they were caused by his withdrawal from Paxil.

``I stopped taking this drug ... and it destroyed me. It almost killed me,'' he said.

In June, a Wyoming jury awarded $8 million in damages to the family of a man after determining that Paxil caused him to kill his wife, daughter and granddaughter before committing suicide.

AP-NY-08-25-01 1441EDT

 

I agree with Dr. Cassidy that if our grief becomes depression then it is a sin of not trusting the Lord. Whenever we experience loss we must trust in the Lord, for it is all part of His plan for us.

I would like to thank everyone who has participated in this thread. It has shown many different aspects of depression and how to deal with them.

In my observations of my wife I KNOW that depression is a scary thing. Let me share what happened to my wife, and scared the daylights out me, when she was first diagnosed.

About 4 months after the birth of our son she began to get very moody. She would cry over almost anything. Then the next day the very same thing would make her the happiest person in the world. One day we stopped in her work for something and she came out to the car, got in the backseat and started crying. She cried all the way home, and I had to almost carry her into the house. She lay on the bed and cried for a few min then seemed to settle down. When I went to check on her she was laying there eyes wide open staring at the ceiling. She didn't blink, she didn't show any sign that she heard me when I talked to her, I could barely tell that she was breathing. Nothing I could do would get a response from her. I didn't know what to, it was the absolutly most frighting time of my life. At the time I was not saved, did not attend church, nothing, but I prayed that day that God would send her back to me from wherever she had gone. She stayed in this condition for at least 30 min, but it seemed much much longer. She finally came around and couldn't really tell me what had happened. She said she knew I was trying to communicate with her but she couldn't will herself to respond. The next day we went to the Dr. It was a long hard journey back for her, and she will still cycle from time to time. Now her problems are mostly with the manic phase and not the depression.

What I witnessed that day and for the many many days of her recovery was very scarey. I would recommend that anyone with a loved one who suffers from depression, or if you are just intrested, to read "On The Edge of Darkness" by Kathy Cronkite (Walter Cronkite's daughter). It is an excellent book profiling many famous people who have suffered from depression. This book gave me alot of insight into what was going on with my wife.

[ August 27, 2001: Message edited by: NewBeliever ]

 

Depression is a sad thing. Yes not trusting God is not right and I have been there.

However some people have a mental problem, a sickness/disease of depression. This is not a sin.

Its very hard to trust God for everything all of the time and many fall into this even the best of us.

We fall and must stand up again. Its not good to condemn people who get depressed and dont fully trust God. We must lovingly restore them and show them the way.

 

As a professional Christian counselor, I have read this topic with interest. There have been some very insightful posts here.

I believe that every emotion is a God-given emotion. So, why did God give us depression? I believe it is a natural part of the grieving process. When we have a loss, we really should want to go and be by ourselves for a time so God can help us heal.

People are complex. Is a person's depression a physical, spiritual, emotional or mental problem? The chances are that all of those areas are affected. That is why if a person is depressed to the point that it is affecting his or her Christian life, their work, their family life, etc., they should go see a professionally trained Christian counselor. A master's degree from an accredited institution is a minimum. I have seen lot's of bad counseling by church members who read a book and decided they could handle any situation they faced. This is dangerous.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I believe that every emotion is a God-given emotion.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Anger?? Lust?? Bitterness?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>So, why did God give us depression? I believe it is a natural part of the grieving process. When we have a loss, we really should want to go and be by ourselves for a time so God can help us heal.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why do you equate grief with depression? They are two different things. Grief is a part of the healing process. Allowing it to turn to depression is sinful thinking. Part of the problem of much of the modern infatuation with Christian counseling is the failure to address sin as sin. The counselor's job is to give hope to the counselee. When one who has lost a loved one is then told that depression is okay, it removes all hope because they are told they have no other options. The biblical approach is to address grief as grief and depression as depression. That gives the person hope.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>A master's degree from an accredited institution is a minimum. I have seen lot's of bad counseling by church members who read a book and decided they could handle any situation they faced. This is dangerous.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And there is a lot of bad counseling from those who have master's degrees from accredited institutions but have no theological training. Those who have no theological training have no basis on which to discuss reality in terms of helping people. What is dangerous is going to someone who is so out of touch with reality that they misdiagnose problems, confuse the problem with the sympton, and address the sympton rather than the underlying problem. A proper understanding of the soul starts with a proper understanding of God because man was created in God's image. A proper understanding of man's soul requires a proper understanding of sin and its effects on life. A proper understanding of man's soul requires a proper understanding of the biblical solution to man's problem.

The minimum for helping others is theology.

 

Anger is God-given--absolutely. See the example of Jesus. Should not Christians be angry when they see other Christians being martyred in Sudan? Bitterness is simply unresolved anger (which the Bible teaches is a sin). Lust is the emotion of sexual desire that is misplaced outside of the bounds of marriage. So, again, all emotions, in their purest form, are God-given. When counselors understand the proper place of the emotions it helps them understand people better.

By depression, I mean a feeling of loss that causes one to want to withdraw and come to grips with this. I direct three counseling centers that ministered to over 1,000 people this year. Our speciality is helping people who have expereinced trauma or loss. Depression can be a normal reaction to unusual events. You help people work through the grief and depression. Reliance on God, prayer, Scripture meditation, etc. are important parts of this.

A Christian counselor who does not have a good theological foundation is not really a "Christian" counselor. However, theological training (which I have)does not qualify one to set up shop as a knowledgeable counselor.

However, I agree that counseling is like any other ministry, we are dependent on God for wisdom and guidance, whether or not you have a Ph.D. However, a person who is called to be a Christian counselor should respond to that call by seeking a minimum of a master's degree. A call to serve is a call to prepare.

 

There are great, average and lousy councellors. For me I am extremely careful who I confide in, Christian or not.

Christians can be just as messed up as non Christians

 

Dr. Larry,
I am very interested in knowing the tests you mention that can be ran for the "chemical imbalance" in a brain. ie-Are you referring to labs tests that conclusively determine chemical brain imbalance?

Since I counsel church people quite often on this problem I am very interested in knowing what the tests are. (So is my physician).

Your help will be greatly appeciated.
Sincerely,
Pastor Bob
Victory Baptist Church www.vbckit.org

 

Pastor Larry,
ooops! Sorry. I meant you in the above post, not Dr. Larry. [Its getting late.] I refer to your post from August 22.
Thanks,
Pastor Bob

 

As someone diagnosed with bi-polar disorder myself...I can add a little to this posting! As I've said in some of my previous postings, I was diagnosed with brain cancer three years ago. Until that time, I never struggled with depression or bi-polar.. unless, and please don't attack me for saying this...unless their was an area of sin in my life that I wasn't activly working to improve. Fortunatly, the Lord has used my experience in this area to develop an empathy within me for fellow sufferers. However, I have to say that no one should be offended by a counslor, pastor or friend who when you have sought out their help or advice on depression, if that person does raise the question to you about your spiritual condition. To me, I would think that I was talking to just a simple crack-pot prescription writer if he didn't take the time to determine if I in fact had a physical or chemical problem or not. I totally appreciate that line of questioning and can respect it...as long as you don't go as far as some people do and demand that no matter what, if your struggling in this area then obviously you are in sin and out of fellowship with God. When I first began showing signs of the tumor, one of the main symptoms were some MAJOR personality changes. Durning these times no matter how many people told me I needed help...I honestly couldn't see it. My brain was not funtioning properly and to me...everyone else had the problem. That made it so much harder to get help! Aside from the fact that I was brought up being taught that line about depression and your spiritual state...so, I simply felt going to a doctor about it was kind of a cop out. Finally, I did get treatment and it controlled the severe mood swings, aggression, insomnia, mania that goes along with the bi-polor...which, as we found out later, was a result of the tumor. And yes...there are certain chemicals that get out of whack and with me just to mention a couple...seratonin, and melatonin. I would go seven and eight days with no sleep whatsoever...I was slowly deteriating. It was a blessing to get things back on track and after a couple of months a made the mistake of taking to heart a very outspoken, opinionated christian friend's advice about medication....I went off of mine and within a matter of a week, I was out of control again. I ended up having to be detained by police (talk about being embarrassed retrospectivly) and placed in the hospital. God's grace is good though and he used this experience not only for me, but for my church. They are much more careful and open about discussing these issues now and do not pass judgement so quickly. Granted, they will ask about the spiritual things first and make sure thats not the issue...but they no longer use the words...Never, Always, etc when it comes to this. As for the chemicals...when I got pregnant last year...naturally I wasn't willing to risk being on that medication while pregnant...so, knowing I'm not in the proper state of mind when I cycle...I prepared the papers that would allow my husband to commit me to the hospital if the situation were to arrise during the pregnancy. I made sure my wishes were stated that no matter what...they were not to medicate me if I was admitted,,,even if it meant them having to use restraints. I wanted to protect my baby yet at the same time, I know that I can not see my state of mind when I'm like that. Once again, God had mercy on me and I had ABSOLUTLY NO problems whatsoever during the pregnancy. It amazes me because now, six months later...I am starting to feel some of the symptoms returning...the biggest one..the same one that started the whole thing before...the insomnia. So, I've made an appointment with a doctor so that I can get back on my meds before a bad situation occurs. I'm sorry I rambled here...it's just that this topic does mean a lot to me and yet....I agree with both sides on many levels. I just really do believe there are "exceptions to the rule" Thanks for listening!!!