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Descended into hell

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Aaron, Nov 10, 2002.

  1. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Do you believe that it was necessary for Christ to die to pay the debt? After all, He announcement came prior to His death.

    Perhaps in your view that is enough, but is that enough in the view of the Father? Is that truly what is required to pay the price of redemption?

    [ November 12, 2002, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: Aaron ]
     
  2. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Aaron, we've already dealt with the timing of the announcement. It was his last words.
     
  3. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Yes, we did deal with it. The phrase, "It is finished," cannot be used to say Christ did not descend into hell just as it cannot be used to say that Christ did not have to die.

    It's really very simple, and I'm surprised that it keeps coming up.
     
  4. Travelsong

    Travelsong Guest

    It is my belief that the essence of life is to be covered and sustained by God's grace.The essence of death is to be removed from God's sustaining grace.Jesus experienced the former because He IS God, and he certainly experienced the latter without descending into hell.
     
  5. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    Ole Scofield--ya'll know him?? He comments on John 19: 30 is, "It is finished" was the shout of victory." Comes from the Greek word--teleo--to bring it to perfection!!

    Nothing else needed to be done to bring salvation's sacrifice to perfection. He suffered once for sin. Not twice!! The hell He experienced was on the cross---behind what the Roman's and the Jews did in the physical world--there was and still is the "unseen" world where God was and still is working. Nobody there in the physical world saw what was going on behind Heaven's "curtain" in those 6 hours on Calvary. When Jesus shouted to Heaven---"Eli, Eli! Lama Sabacthina!" He was in direct communication with God--imagine--God questioning God! God forsakeing God! It hadn't never happened like that before from the eons of eternity past!!

    You ever go to the hospital emergency room--that doctor will come in and pull that curtain around where you and him are---cloaked from the rest of the world--just you and him and that nurse. Well, there at Calvary--Heaven's "Emergency Room" curtain was pulled tight--cloaking out the rest of the physical world---in a spiritual sense--it was just God the Father (attending physican), God the Son(patient), and God the Holy Spirit(Nurse)--behind Heaven's curtain!! There on Calvary was where man did his worst--but that God did His best!! Three days later---the Doctor(God the Father) pulls Heaven's "Emergency Room" curtain back open!!

    But the hell was flung on Jesus at Calvary! Or Calvary would not have been sufficient!! God wouldn't have been good enough if He wouldn't have "finished" salvation's perfection at Calvary!! "It is finished!!" Nothing else needs to be done! Perfection! Paid in full!! Don't settle for anything less!! And the story that says that Jesus suffered in hell for 3 more additional days--is something less than perfection!

    Your friend,
    Blackbird
     
  6. mountainrun

    mountainrun New Member

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    The confusion stems from the use of the word "Hell" here.
    Hell is the lake of fire into which death and Hades are cast after the judgement. {Rev. 20:14}

    Hades is where all the dead went before Christ.

    Hades is Greek for the Hebrew "Sheoul."
    This is the place for human spirits between death and resurrection.
    I have to side with those who believe Christ descended into Hades, that is, the Paradise side of Hades for three days.
    That is, where Abraham and Lazarus were.
    Remember, He rose and said that He had not yet gone to the Father, so where had He been?
    Jesus told the thief they would be together in Paradise that day.
    When Jesus ascended to Heaven, He took Paradise with Him.

    Believers now go directly to Heaven.
    Others still go to Hades.
    When Jesus said "It is finished", the work of salvation was indeed finished.
    He did not go to Hades to be punished further, but to announce the completion of things.

    MR
     
  7. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Whether I say death, hell, or the grave, I am really saying the same thing. I may refer to the Presidency as George Bush, the Administration, or the White House, but the use of one does not rule out the incorporation of the other. I already showed above that Paradise and Heaven are the same place.

    There are many aspects to Christ's one suffering. He was ridiculed, He was flogged, He was beaten, His beard pulled out, thorns were on His head, He was crucified, He died, He descended into Hell.

    It really boils down to what are the wages of sin, and did Christ really redeem us?
     
  8. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Hi, Aaron. [​IMG]

    I believe the story of the Rich Man & Lazarus is Literal.

    You said, "I believe that Paradise is Heaven. In 2 Corinthians 12:2 Paul speaks of a man he knew who was caught up to the "third heaven." "

    I believe that Paradise is in Heaven, too, now, as it was when Paul wrote to the Corinthians. But it wasn't in heaven until after the cross. [​IMG]

    Also, the words, "It is finished!" hold many layers of meanings to also include the fulfillment of prophecy, the fulfillment of high priesthood for our sins. [​IMG]
     
  9. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    For the record, I do not hold to the superstitious views on why Christ had to descend into hell.

    He did not have to atone for His own sins.

    He was not "pounced upon by demons."

    He descended into hell for our sakes; to bear the full wrath and righteous indignation of Almighty God for our sins.

    That is all.

    The wages of sin is death.
     
  10. mountainrun

    mountainrun New Member

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    Once again, Jesus did NOT descend into hell, He descended into Paradise, the place of the righteous after death.
    Haven't we all read what He told the criminal beside Him on the cross?

    No unrighteous souls will be sent to Hell until after the Judgement.
    They are currently sent to Hades, which will be thrown into Hell per Rev.20:13.

    =======
    Rev.20:13. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.
    14. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
    15. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
    =======


    MR
     
  11. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Once again, you should read all the posts. That has been dealt with already. ;)
     
  12. Travelsong

    Travelsong Guest

    What kind of additional punishment would Jesus have had to endure apart from being utterly disconnected from the God head? Certainly what Jesus endured on the cross was death in every possible sense, something which no man has experienced yet.My faith is in the sufficiency of Christ's atoning work at the cross and nothing else.Even if for he sake of argument Jesus was made to suffer more punishment, it would be paradise by comparison to that day on Calvary.

    I wonder though, for that moment where Christ lost communion with God, were there only two persons in the God head?

    [ November 14, 2002, 11:02 PM: Message edited by: Travelsong ]
     
  13. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    TravelSong!!

    Three!!!! Three!!! Three!!! Imagine Jesus--never loosing one ounce of His Godship---God suffered & died!!

    Your friend,
    Blackbird
     
  14. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Why is this thought of as additional? It isn't additional. Without the torments of hell, death is incomplete.

    The wages of sin is death.
     
  15. Travelsong

    Travelsong Guest

    Excellent point. Jesus always had to remain God, even for the brief moment where the Father forsook Him in order to fulfill His role as the perfect sacrifice.
     
  16. Travelsong

    Travelsong Guest

    Why is this thought of as additional? It isn't additional. Without the torments of hell, death is incomplete.

    The wages of sin is death.
    </font>[/QUOTE]What exactly could Jesus have suffered in hell that He didn't suffer at calvary. I mean specifically what do you believe His suffering entailed?

    All the torments of hell will never come close to the spiritual death which is being completely cut off from any communion with God.To be totally incapable of enjoying even the most minute gift of joy or happiness or pleasure of any kind is spiritual death.Jesus suffered that at the cross, and as far as I am concerned that is where he finished His atoning work.
     
  17. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    Uh, just one question for those who believe Jesus descended to hell: If an eternity in hell is a good enough punishment for one man who sinned to be punished, then why would three days in hell be adequate for all of the sin of those who accept Jesus as their Lord?

    Think of it this way. An eternity in hell is punishment for sin, but even more--a punishment for NOT accepting the Son of God. A blood sacrifice was what was needed in the old testament. Those lambs died, spilled their blood and atoned the sins of those for who the sacrifice were for. We needed a blood sacrifice and nothing could be a BIGGER sacrifice than God becoming man and spilling his blood on the cross as a sacrifice -- just like in the old testament--to those who accept it. Hell is not an issue here, it is a result of the lack of accepting the sacrifice. [​IMG]
     
  18. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    I read that Jesus tasted death for us; I do not read that He was punished by the Father for us.

    Death is not a punishment. Death is a consequence of sin.

    Hell is the punishment for refusing Christ. Christ could not refuse Christ!

    Christ 'descended' into death; this is not a question. But Sheol and Gehenna are not to be mixed up. They are not synonymous.

    A picture may help: when you leave my house, you go down the drive. In order to leave my house you have to go down the drive (if you have a car). But at that point there are several ways which one can go. Going down the drive is the beginning of the trip but does not define the destination.

    Death is the universal beginning of the trip, but it does not define the destination.
     
  19. mountainrun

    mountainrun New Member

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    Aaron, I HAVE read all the posts. The matter has been dealt with, but incorrectly.
    I'm not sure what specifically you say has been dealt with, but to clarify for you..

    Paradise is indeed now in Heaven, but it has not always been there. {This has already been dealt with here.}

    Hell and Hades are most certainly not the same.
    Where, after all do the think is the final end of Hades?

    MR
     
  20. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    I think some here are missing the point about Christ descending into hell. It wasn't for punishment. It was for victory, to defeat Satan & the Angel of Death! He also took Paradise from hell (with the great gulf in between to separate OT saints from unbelievers) & placed it & them in heaven. AND, He got the TITLE DEED OF THE EARTH BACK, which had been forfeited by Adam at the Fall!

    Consider this excerpt from the Fundamental Baptist Instituted web site:

    http://www.fbinstitute.com/revelation/5.htm

    Also, this is not mentioned in the above text, but remember when Jesus was in the wilderness & Satan came to Him & tempted Him, promising Him all the Kingdoms of the Earth? That ties in with this as well, which could be another thread.

    There is a spiritual realm involved with the Crucifixion in addition to the physical which is being overlooked here. The descent into hell was not for punishment, but for VICTORY!

    Why these along with other fundamental truths, are no longer being taught & preached in Baptist churches anymore is beyond me....and truly a shame, IMHO.
     
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