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Description of Millenium - We are not in it now!

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by LadyEagle, Oct 9, 2002.

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  1. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Someone mentioned on another thread we are presently living in the Millenium - the 1000 years (reign of Jesus Christ).

    Here is how the millenium is described in some passages - It hasn't happened yet!

    Isa.11
    [1] And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

    [2] And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

    [3] And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

    [4] But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

    [5] And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

    [6] The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

    [7] And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

    [8] And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

    [9] They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

    [10] And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. (JESUS!)

    [11] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

    [12] And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

    [13] The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.

    [14] But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.

    [15] And the LORD shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.

    [16] And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.

    During the Millenium, Satan is bound for 1000 years to the bottomless pit.

    Rev.20
    [1] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

    [2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

    [3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

    [4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    [5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

    [6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    [7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

    [8] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

    [9] And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

    [10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

    [11] And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

    [12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

    [13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

    [14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

    [15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
     
    #1 LadyEagle, Oct 9, 2002
  2. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    Where is the 1000 years mentioned in Isa 11?
     
    #2 BrianT, Oct 9, 2002
  3. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    You can only find it there if you run the Bible through the dispy premill template. [​IMG] Those who haven't succumbed to the popular hype of that particular eschatology don't see those things.

    Ken
     
    #3 KenH, Oct 9, 2002
  4. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Wait a minute.

    We are in the year 2002. That's 2000+ years and the millenium is 1000 years.

    Something isn't right.

    HankD
     
    #4 HankD, Oct 9, 2002
  5. Australian Baptist Student

    Australian Baptist Student New Member

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    You can only find it there if you run the Bible through the dispy premill template. [​IMG] Those who haven't succumbed to the popular hype of that particular eschatology don't see those things.

    Ken    </font>[/QUOTE]Not at all. The Messianic Age is often referred to throughout the Bible. Revelation additionally informs us that it will happen to last for 1000 years. Even if this were the only reference to it, we would believe in it, as all Scripture is God breathed. As it is, it links seamlessly into the rest of the Biblical teaching on this subject, the "Blessed Hope."

    Read Zechariah, Exekiel, Isaiah etc.

    All the best, Colin
     
    #5 Australian Baptist Student, Oct 10, 2002
  6. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    Revelation 20.1-4 is quite enough persuasion that we are not currently in the 1000 yrs. The devil obviously is not bound. And no I do not blame all my sin on the devil; yet I cannot see him bound in this present age;

    God Bless you all in your walk and service to Him.

    Bro. Dallas
     
    #6 Frogman, Oct 10, 2002
  7. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    I thought only Jehovahs' Witnesses believed we were in the Kingdom (1000 year reign of Christ) now. They believed it to be spiritual, not temporal, and that this time of righteousness and peace began in 1914.

    What else began in 1914.

    If this is the "Kingdom" prophesied of old, it would take some truly warped and JW-like wresting of scripture to try to prove it! :eek:
     
    #7 Dr. Bob, Oct 10, 2002
  8. jerryMschneider

    jerryMschneider New Member

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    What I find really remarkable about the melenium is that even after the 1000 year reign of Jesus, there will STILL be those who rebel against him and fight against Him!! And even stranger and more remarkable, who are the "parants" of these who are a part of the final rebellion? Makes you think, huh? :(
     
    #8 jerryMschneider, Oct 10, 2002
  9. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    As I mentioned in another thread Brian, the OT does not give the time frame. It describes the nature of the kingdom. The time frame is not the issue of OT thought. This is a non-issue. It is only a straw man.
     
    #9 Pastor Larry, Oct 10, 2002
  10. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Not everyone was indoctrinated by Scofield and Larkin.

    Dishpansensationalism may be popular in some circles, but others have been able to think for themselves.

    Dividing the bible history into 7 divisions of how God deals with humankind corrupts sane theology. More fantasy than reality, but it does make for sensational conventionism.

    Cheers,

    Jim

    amillennialism reigns
     
    #10 Jim1999, Oct 10, 2002
  11. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    I don't think it's a strawman. In amill, what do you think happens after Christ's return?
     
    #11 BrianT, Oct 10, 2002
  12. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    Dr. Bob, I'm really surprised at your comments. Surely you know how dominant it has been in church history, as well as that many Christians today and even denominations in general subscribe to it. Surely you know that even Baptist history is rich with amillennial thinking. Did you *really* think "only JW's believed we were in the kingdom now", or is this some weak form of guilty by association?

    BTW, JW's are premill. [​IMG] ;)
     
    #12 BrianT, Oct 10, 2002
  13. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    Please elaborate.
     
    #13 Daniel David, Oct 10, 2002
  14. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    Please elaborate.</font>[/QUOTE]The JW's have always been known for one of their witnessing approaches, discussion of the "1000 year" kingdom to come.

    See their official site, especially points 6 and 7 on this page.

    [ October 10, 2002, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: BrianT ]
     
    #14 BrianT, Oct 10, 2002
  15. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    BrianT, come on. Did you read that stuff? In 1914 Jehovah gave Jesus the authority to reign? What kind of nonsense is this? If anything, that would be postmillenialism. You know what postmill is don't you? It is humanism wrapped up in Christian terms. It is also the gospel of wishful thinking and bizarre exegesis.
     
    #15 Daniel David, Oct 10, 2002
  16. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    Maybe I have misunderstood what JW's believe, so maybe I made a mistake. On their page, they seem to talk about the 1000 years as future, so this is certainly not amill. Maybe they mean it in a postmill way (yes, I know what postmill is).

    But regardless, amill is a strong part of church (and Baptist) history, and slamming it because of what another group may believe is silly. We got on this JW rabbit trail because Dr. Bob said "I thought only Jehovahs' Witnesses believed we were in the Kingdom (1000 year reign of Christ) now." I'm sorry if I confused the issue with my comments, but the bottom line is that amill has nothing to do with JWs.

    The men who gave us our English Bibles (yes, including the KJV) were various flavors of amill and postmill. Premill was even considered heresey at various points in Christian history.
     
    #16 BrianT, Oct 10, 2002
  17. Robert J Hutton

    Robert J Hutton New Member

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    Warm Christian greetings!

    If we are in the millenium now just who is deceiving the nations? It can't be the Devil because during the millenium he is "locked up".
    Rev 20 v 3

    Kind regards

    Robert J Hutton
     
    #17 Robert J Hutton, Oct 10, 2002
  18. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    I'm still confused (Yes, I know, that's no surprise to anyone).

    How can we be in the millenium (which is of 1000 year duration) if it is the year 2002?
    I guess the real question to those brethren who believe we are in the millenium is :

    In what year did it start?
    It would have to be after the year 1002, no?

    Or is "millenium" an allegorical word?

    HankD

    [ October 10, 2002, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: HankD ]
     
    #18 HankD, Oct 10, 2002
  19. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    People are quite capable of deceiving themselves. [​IMG] Also, there's demons a-plenty, I'm sure. ;) Note that at the beginning of the Gospels, the nations were under Satan's power (see the temptation of Christ). At the end (see Matt 28), all authority was given to Christ and the first thing he said was to teach the nations.

    Amill sees the "1000 years" as meaning a "long time", specifically the time between Christ's first coming and second coming. Consider that Psa 50:10 says God owns the cattle on "a thousand hills" - does that mean only specifically 1000, or does it mean just a really big number?
     
    #19 BrianT, Oct 10, 2002
  20. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Thank You Brian,

    I understand the point of view.
    Now I am not confused [​IMG]

    HankD
     
    #20 HankD, Oct 10, 2002
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