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Featured Did a Calvinist say this?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Reynolds, Jul 9, 2017.

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  1. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    "...but because God loves people so much, He wants to fill His beautiful heaven with people who will live with Him forever. Our sin should keep us out of heaven, but instead, God invites everyone-you too!-to come to Him and ask for forgiveness for our sins. And He promises forgiveness to each one who asks."
     
    #1 Reynolds, Jul 9, 2017
  2. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    God does invite everyone, but he elects only some. He has chosen and predestined whom He wills.

    Reynolds, you are playing a similarly silly game like utilyan.
     
    #2 MennoSota, Jul 9, 2017
  3. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Silly in your mind.
     
    #3 Reynolds, Jul 9, 2017
  4. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Of course silly in my mind, but that doesn't mean your game isn't silly. It just means you don't think it's silly.
    Both you and utilyan use a jesters game as though it might make your theology legitimate.
     
    #4 MennoSota, Jul 10, 2017
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  5. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Yes. A Calvinist wrote that. Specifically, John MacArthur in his book "I Believe in Jesus: Leading your child to Christ". Are you wondering why John MacArthur wrote that, or do you have another reason for asking that question?
     
    #5 Reformed, Jul 10, 2017
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  6. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    No, I am pointing out that from a practical evangelism standpoint, there is not a major difference between Calvinism and Non-Calvinism.
     
    #6 Reynolds, Jul 10, 2017
  7. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    My theology is legitimate.
     
    #7 Reynolds, Jul 10, 2017
  8. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    The difference in the evangelism is that a Calvinist doesn't get depressed and wonder why he can't save the persons to whom he is sharing the gospel. He knows that God will work in the heart of the individual who is chosen. No guilt. No wondering if he can create a greater emotional appeal. God will accomplish His Sovereign will.
    Peace
     
    #8 MennoSota, Jul 10, 2017
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  9. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    It would be a tad more honest if you stated that in your OP.

    Practically speaking there are many similarities in the methodology of evangelism between Monergists and Synergists. Both believe that God is the one who saves. Both believe that saving faith is necessary on the part of the one being saved. But there are material differences in evangelism between both groups, and those differences change even between factions within both groups. For instance, in more Reform-minded Calvinists there is a greater emphasis on obedience after a profession of faith. I am in that group. Reformed Christians are looking for obedience to Christ, His church, and His commands in the life of a new convert. We look for these things because "not every professor is a possessor"; not everyone who claims to be a Christian, is a Christian. That is one of the reasons why Reformed Christians de-emphasize the sinners prayer. Reformed Christians believe that salvation is by grace through faith, and nothing else. It is the work of God in regenerating a dead sinner. No prayer or a raising of hands accomplishes what only God can do. So, while Monergists and Synergists may have the same goal in mind, both groups view evangelism according to their greater theology.
     
    #9 Reformed, Jul 10, 2017
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  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I don't know if a Calvinist said that exact quote but I have heard John MacArthur, J.I. Packer, Wayne Grudem and John Piper say very similar things. I think Paul Enns presents the same in his systematic theology as well. Spurgeon also preached along the same lines (that God genuinely calls to all with the gospel of Christ) as did Jonathan Edwards... and John Calvin wrote of salvation being offered earnestly to all indiscriminately....but the language is too contemporary for it to be one of them.

    My first guess was Piper, but since it looks more to Heaven and doesn't mention God's glory....I'll go with MacArthur.

    I suppose just about any Calvinist could have written or said that as it does not contradict Calvinistic doctrine (in fact, the Canons of Dort address those who are called to the gospel message but, not out of an insufficiency of the offer or of Christ's work, reject the gospel). There is a "Calvinism" which I've referred to as a neo-Calvinism that would reject Christ's work as inclusive of a legitimate offer of salvation to the world, if those are the ones you are targeting with the post.
     
    #10 JonC, Jul 10, 2017
  11. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I believe like you on this, however I believe we must follow the model Jesus set and Paul repeatedly demonstrated. We must present The Gospel in a manner that the person is open to.
     
    #11 Reynolds, Jul 10, 2017
  12. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    It was Macarthur.
     
    #12 Reynolds, Jul 10, 2017
  13. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    #13 Reynolds, Jul 10, 2017
  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Just call me the Grey Ghost....or is that name taken? :)

    Anyway, MacArthur is right as God desires none should perish.
     
    #14 JonC, Jul 10, 2017
  15. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Yep, I claim Grey Ghost.
    Yes, he is right.
     
    #15 Reynolds, Jul 10, 2017
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  16. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    You didn't state that until post #6. Until then no one knew your real reason for posting the MacArthur quote. These are the type of things that cause skepticism of individual's motives.
     
    #16 Reformed, Jul 10, 2017
  17. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    That is my biggest hang up with Calvinism. God desires none should perish, yet far more perish than come to repentance. According to Calvinism, God brings about His Soverign will. ?????????......
     
    #17 Reynolds, Jul 10, 2017
  18. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I don't see why. It was a straight question.
     
    #18 Reynolds, Jul 10, 2017
  19. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    You don't see why? There are more than a few posters who create threads with OP's that have nothing to do with the reason they started the thread. They wait until people "bite" and then reveal their agenda later in the thread. It gives the appearance of the old bait and switch scheme. It's better to just state the reason for your question in the OP. You could have said, "I want to discuss the similarities in evangelism methods between Monergists and Synergists. Here is a quote from John MacArthur. What do you think?" That makes your OP more straightforward. So, no. Your OP wasn't a straight question.
     
    #19 Reformed, Jul 10, 2017
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  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Yes. If God desired that people perished, or took pleasure in the destruction of the wicked, then we would view God as evil (and rightly so because Scripture testifies to the oppisite). On the other hand, if God has to have his will met in desiring none perish then either all would be saved or God is powerless to accomplish His will (which is also an unbiblical statement).

    I desire not to punish my son but in terms of discipline I act against this desire to fill the greater desire that my son will be a man of character.

    Calvinism holds that God desires none perish. To this end God loved the world by sending His Son so that those who would believe would be saved. This is a free offer if grace to the human race, all of mankind. Jesus is the proposition for the sins of the whole world (as John Calvin said, all men indiscriminately). I understand there is a form of Calvinism that denies this (I believe you will see this in @Yeshua1 's position), but there is also a form of free-will theology called Open Theism. It is not right to judge the whole by its extreme version (but both sides here seem to do just that).

    Insofar as Calvinism goes, you seem to be arguing what you think it denies (and what some do, in fact, erroneously deny) rather than what it affirms. I think this may be due to Calvinism as it focuses on God and the Church rather than those who will not believe.

    Sometimes men grasp one truth and, as Spurgeon noted when he referred to these as "narrow minded" Calvinists, can see nothing else. If they hold firmly to the gospel we can argue against what they miss but we shouldn't be too harsh. Perhaps this is all they are capable of doing.
     
    #20 JonC, Jul 10, 2017
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