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Featured Did Daniel Sinfully Accept Worship of Himself?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Scripture More Accurately, Mar 5, 2021.

  1. Scripture More Accurately

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    Daniel 2:46 Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him.

    This verse provides a good test case for how people approach interpreting the Bible. If one believes that he must say only what the text says, then certain things would seem to necessarily follow:

    Daniel did not reject the worship that was offered him on this occasion. He could have recoiled and run away from the king the instant that the king fell on his face.

    He certainly could have immediately and loudly protested the king's doing so before they offered to him what the passage says was offered to him.

    Instead, what we read is that the king fell on his face and worshiped Daniel and commanded that things be offered to him.

    Furthermore, we read that the king did the following after offering worship to Daniel:

    Daniel 2:48 Then the king made Daniel a great man, and gave him many great gifts, and made him ruler over the whole province of Babylon, and chief of the governors over all the wise men of Babylon.

    Had Daniel loudly and forcefully rejected the worship offered to him and rebuked the king openly for offering worship to him, would Daniel still have been promoted and honored further by the king?

    Did Daniel sinfully accept worship of himself?
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    [QUOTE="Scripture More Accurately, post: 2686103, member: 17385"
    SNIP
    Did Daniel sinfully accept worship of himself?[/QUOTE]

    Please tell us where scripture says the one being worshiped as a prophet is sinning.
     
  3. Scripture More Accurately

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    Please tell us where scripture says the one being worshiped as a prophet is sinning.[/QUOTE]

    Rev 22:8-9

    8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

    9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

    An angel warned John not to worship him. He said that he was a fellowservant of John and of the prophets, which implies that worship of prophets would be wrong just as worship of the angel would have been wrong. The angel told John to worship God, not any angel, prophet, or anyone else.

    Also, Peter as an apostle rebuked Cornelius for worshiping him:

    Acts 10:25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.

    26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.

    Daniel 2 does not say anything about Daniel rebuking the king in a similar manner.
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Thank you for your informative and responsive post.

    I agree, that according to NT revelation, people should not accept worship, and to do so is sin. And certainly the Law of the OT says people are not to worship any other god.

    I think the word (Aramaic) translated "worshipped" might mean to pay homage to a man, not a god.

    Therefore no sin. See Genesis 43:28 for example.
     
  5. Scripture More Accurately

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    No, the same exact verb is used 11x in Daniel 3 of the worship of the golden image which Neb. said had to be worshiped, and he regarded the refusal of Daniel's 3 friends to worship that image as the refusal to worship any other god other than the true God:

    Daniel 3:28

    28 Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.

    This Aramaic verb is used in Scripture only in Daniel 2:46 and those 11 other times in Daniel 3. The last occurrence in 3:28 clearly shows that it is a verb for worshiping a god and not just a man.
     
    #5 Scripture More Accurately, Mar 5, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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  7. Scripture More Accurately

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    Maybe so. I'll have to look into it and see what I find out. Thanks for the info.
     
  8. Scripture More Accurately

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    I am not sure what you mean by the "form" of it.
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Look at the list on the right hand side and note the "bolded" symbols are different for Daniel 2:46 than for the others.

    Note also at the bottom of the right hand column, the 12 occurrences lists just one occurrence (the third one on the list) for our verb.
     
    #9 Van, Mar 5, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
  10. Scripture More Accurately

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    I have studied Hebrew, but not Aramaic. Trying to make a case that the perfect of a verb means homage to a man but other forms (imperfect, participle) mean worship of a god seems to be dubious to me. I'll see what more I can find.
     
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I do not possess any expertise on why several but not most scholars see the idea as homage to a person, rather than worship. They could be trying to avoid your surmise, Daniel allowed sin. But even if he did, it would be in ignorance, because scripture allowed paying homage to worthy people at that time.
     
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The context is key, ". . . Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him. The king answered unto Daniel, and said, Of a truth it is, that your God is a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret. Then the king made Daniel a great man, . . ."
     
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  13. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    I would believe that if Daniel had sinned in the way it is assumed, God would have rebuked him or had punished him but because of the context, the king was honoring the God, Daniel represents for why the king was honoring the God of Daniel.

    Romans 13:1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. 6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. KJV
     
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  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    You are assuming that the Hebrew "segid" must always be understood as in "worship" of the Living God. It can simply mean "to bow" to somone. The LXX uses the verb "προσεκύνησεν", which Liddle & Scotts Greek lexicons says, "of the Oriental fashion of prostrating oneself before kings and superiors". Which does not always have to mean in the sense of "Worshipping God". Words to have different meaning in their context. Like "θεός", which is used for The One True God of the Bible, and also for the devil (2 Cor 4:4), and Jesus also uses this term for human judges, John 10:34-35. You are overstating what actually happened in the Book of Danel, and using human "logic", without giving all of the facts
     
  15. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Please tell us where scripture says the one being worshiped as a prophet is sinning.[/QUOTE]

    Jesus in Matthew 4:10, "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him ONLY shalt thou serve."
     
  16. Scripture More Accurately

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    I am not assuming anything.

    I have studied the various words in the original languages to a considerable extent.

    You should not assume that what I post reflects the full extent of my prior knowledge and research.

    The verb "sagad" used in Daniel 2:46 is not a Hebrew verb. The passage is in Aramaic.
     
    #16 Scripture More Accurately, Mar 7, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
  17. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    and you know enough Aramaic to say that what you suggest is correct? I read in the Hebrew Bible, where the whole of Daniel is in Hebrew, as do the Jews use, and the word most certainly does also have the meaning "to bow", as people so do to our earthly kings and queens. The LXX uses "προσεκύνησεν", which I have shown can also mean "to bow". Your arguments is really moot, as it is a strawman one! as you assume that you know more than Daniel did! :rolleyes:
     
  18. Scripture More Accurately

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    You can believe what you want and be wrong. Every lexical source that I am aware of says that passage is in Aramaic.
     
  19. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    then show how the meaning differs from what the Hebrew says?

    I think that you are SO VERY WRONG, to write "Did Daniel sinfully accept worship of himself?", which is such an ARROGANT statement to make of one of the greatest OT Prophets! Your OP are arguments in posts show your ignorance of the actual facts, and your false defence of what YOU think is right! Be humble and admit that you are wrong, and move one. because you most certainly are 100% WRONG!!! :eek:
     
  20. Scripture More Accurately

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    Let's save some time. Show some scholarly sources that say that Daniel 2:46 is in Hebrew. Not your opinion, but other language scholars who say that passage in the Hebrew Bible is in Hebrew.
     
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