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Did God create evil?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Trust in the Lord, Apr 27, 2003.

  1. dumbox1

    dumbox1 Guest

    If you can't trust a dragon for information about evil, who can you trust?

    Mark ;)
     
  2. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

    Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

    HankD
     
  3. Trust in the Lord

    Trust in the Lord New Member

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    EXIST????????

    If God allowed the evil to exist then it was created by someone else but who? Who else can create?
     
  4. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Satan, the world which came into being as a result of his lie is his creation.

    He is "the god of this world".

    HankD
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    God did not "Create Satan" - He created "Lucifer with Free Will". Luciver USED that Free will to Turn himself to BECOME Satan.

    He fell - before the creation of this World. The "morning stars sang together" at the creation of the earth. EVEN if you only knew about Angels (We are not alone).

    Hebrews 1 tells us that the "WORLDS" were created by Christ. We worship a "CREATOR GOD" inspite of the compromised doctrines of some Christian evilutionists.

    Hebrews 1 also tells us that the Angels are created as ministering spirits. They minister TO those WORLDS that were created.

    Job 1 and Job 2 describe a "gathering" of rulers - beings from those Worlds after the fall of man. Satan comes representing Earth. He usurped Adam's right and is called in the NT "the god of this world" and "the prince of the power of the air".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  6. Haruo

    Haruo New Member

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    Satan, the world which came into being as a result of his lie is his creation.

    He is "the god of this world".

    HankD
    </font>[/QUOTE]You give Satan too much credit, I think, and you forget those who are much more creatively gifted than Satan, namely us folks.

    I'm not sure if Father Suchandso, S.J., thinks Satan has the Imago [Imaginem] Dei written all over his forehead, but it is certainly is true of thee and me, Hank and Carson.

    "The devil made me do it" is a popular line, tracing back to Eve in the Scriptures, but it's poor theology and deserves to be jettisoned in favor of taking human responsibility for human evil.

    Not to say that all evil is necessarily of human manufacture, but we certainly make more than our share of it.

    Haruo
     
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Jesus said "Satan is the Father of all lies. When he speaks a lie he speaks out of his own self".

    He then called the wicked around him "the children of the devil - who is the father of lies".

    Peter calls Satan "a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour". And calls him "our adversary".

    Paul calls him "the god of this world" and "the prince of the power of the air" delcaring that sinners who are apart from Christ are doing satan's bidding (Ephesians 2:1-5).

    Satan is in fact "The great AntiChrist" of all the antichrists that have existed in history. Satan's own counterfiet appearance of Christ is predicted in 2Thess 2.

    Though he can not "create" the world or the people in it - "his craft and power are great - and he is armed with cruel hate" as Martin Luther stated "on earth is not his equal in evil and corruption".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  8. Kamoroso

    Kamoroso New Member

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    If God created beings who were incapable of evil, then they would only be good because they could be no other way. They would not be free. In order to be free, one must have the ability to choose to do whatever one wishes. This is the way God created the angels, and humanity. He created them good, and showed them what is good, but left within them the ability and choice of doing evil. This is what makes us free.

    This was the purpose of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It’s existence brought freedom of choice to Adam and Eve. Giving someone the capability to do evil, is not the same as making them do evil, or shall we say creating evil.

    One could argue that since God knows all, then he knew when he created Lucifer, that he would fall. Thus God created evil. I believe we will have much time in heaven to answer this question fully. This much I do know however, even if God did create evil in this manner, no one has suffered more than him for it. He must have thought it was worth it in the end. Having seen evil for what it is, God’s children will appreciate his goodness all the more. They, and all others, will also understand God far better for it. Having seen the difference between evil and good before their very eyes. Even having been redeemed from an evil heart and mind.

    I find it unlikely that God created evil. If he did, then Lucifer really had no choice, he had to become evil. This is totally inconsistent with what the gospel teaches. God would rather be infinitely humiliated by becoming a man, a servant of man that is, persecuted, spit upon, beaten, tortured, and crucified, than to force even one individual to do, or believe what is right. It is highly unlikely that such a God would have created evil, and forced anyone, or anything to have to be it.

    I Jn 4:7-11 7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
    8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
    9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
    10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
    11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

    By for now. Y. b. in C. Keith
     
  9. SolaScriptura in 2003

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    Isn't evil more properly an idea than an object? Isn't it therefore though up in the minds of men or imagined as we find in Genesis 6:5? Isn't it therefore not composed of matter per se?

    PS: I don't want to get too deep into this discussion, but merely to point out that the phrase "the god of this world" in 2 Cor 4:4 was not rendered as we see it today in the King James Version that was published in 1611. At that time, the KJV said "the God of this world," a mere difference of one capitalized letter. From what I have read, it is a general rule of translation to capitalize the word "god" when the definite article precedes it. Thus, in the Old Testament ha elohim is either translated God or the God whereas elohim by itself would most likely be translated gods. In the same manner, in the New ho theos would be translated either God or the God. The fact that the phrase has the definite article in 2 Cor 4:4 would seem to indicate that it refers to God and not to anyone else, and may I say that it is strange that Calvinists do not so interpret it - I assume therefore that their interpretation that it is Satan is based merely on the lowercase "g" that was not always there even in the most famous English translation.
     
  10. Eyes on Jesus

    Eyes on Jesus Member

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    Knowing that God created Lucifer, what then were the choices of the freewill that he gave to him and the other angels?
     
  11. Smaug067

    Smaug067 New Member

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    JMHO: [​IMG] They were given the choice to worship, fellowship with,and obey God or to refuse Him and His laws. By choosing not to, they displeased Him. Consequently, this choice is sin... evil.
     
  12. Trust in the Lord

    Trust in the Lord New Member

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    JMHO: [​IMG] They were given the choice to worship, fellowship with,and obey God or to refuse Him and His laws. By choosing not to, they displeased Him. Consequently, this choice is sin... evil. </font>[/QUOTE] CHOICE!!!!!!! they were given the choice by whom?
     
  13. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Not so much a choice as a discovery.
    From a Scripture which is usually attributed to Lucifer/Satan...

    Ezekiel 28
    14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
    15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

    HankD

    [ April 30, 2003, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: HankD ]
     
  14. Eyes on Jesus

    Eyes on Jesus Member

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    It was found in him! so was God suprised that it got there? as he made everything good!
     
  15. Me2

    Me2 New Member

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    theres a problem within the Ezekial scriptures used to designate lucifer as satan.

    Eze 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart [is] lifted up, and thou hast said, I [am] a God, I sit [in] the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou [art] a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

    its referring to a man..not a spirit
     
  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Clearly it is NOT a man -

    "YOU were in Eden the Garden of God"

    "YOU were the annointed Cherub who COVERS"

    "YOU were on the Mountain of God, You walked in the midst of the stones of fire"

    "You were BLAMELESS in your ways from the day you were CREATED until sin was found in you"

    "Therefore I CAST YOU AS PROFANE from the mountain of God"

    "I have destroyed you O Covering CHERUB"

    God predicts that He will "BRING FIRE from the MIDST of you and CONSUME you".

    It is a passage about Lucifer - who became Satan. Created Perfect, the Covering cherub who was in fact CAST DOWN from the holy Mountain of God in heaven to earth (Rev 12).

    A powerful revelation about warfare in heaven using the leader of Tyre as a starting symbol but then quickly launching off into details that can apply to Lucifer alone.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  17. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    No He wasn't surprised.

    HankD
     
  18. Eyes on Jesus

    Eyes on Jesus Member

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    So if God wasn't suprised then God knew that satan would sin in choosing evil over good, the choices of our freewill are to choose good or evil both which were given to us by God himself.

    God created good for us to choose to have life, he also created evil in that if that is what we choose then it brings death.

    God wants us to choose the good that he has given so we can know him and have a restored fellowship with him through Jesus Christ.
    For those who choose to disobey,it is evil in the sight of the Lord, and God will justly judge all.

    Romans 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

    Just because God created evil doesn't mean it is a part of him for there is no sin or unrighteous with God for God is Holy.

    If God didn't create evil then he wouldn't know everything about it, and then He wouldn't be God!

    There is only one God in all the earth and that is the God of Israel.
    2 Kings 5:15
     
  19. Eyes on Jesus

    Eyes on Jesus Member

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    still waing for reply
     
  20. Me2

    Me2 New Member

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    Is it at all possible that God created Satan evil?

    Joh 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

    then there would be no fall. and no free will.
    just a tool to be used, as an adversary.

    or can someone present an example of demons (or angels) choosing between good and evil.?

    Me2
     
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