Did God have a hand in establishing the U.S.

Eltrow wrote

Matthew Henry's Bible commentary

Websters 1828 dictionary

So we're dealing with not only a strike to the face but also an intended insult on the person being smitten.


So apparently, Jesus is aware that He is speaking of an insult, the person being smitten on the right cheek is aware he is being insulted, and the person doing the smitting on the right cheek is aware that he is giving an insult.

So, we're dealing with an insult not a fist fight.

The Mishnaic tractate Baba Qamma specifies the various fines for striking an equal; for punching with a fist 40 zuz (days wage), for slapping 200 zuz, for a backhanded slap 400 zuz. Backhanding a slave however was considered a freebie.

The left hand in those days was considered as unclean doubtful it would have been used to smite anyone on either cheek with.

It was the excepted practice of masters to use a backanded slap to admonish a slave, or a husband to admonish a wife, or a parent to admonish a child. All were considered as subordinates...not equals.

Jesus was addressing those considered lowly and accustomed to being reminded of this with a customary slap to the right cheek.

This could only be done by a backhand slap of the right hand to the right cheek that just happend to be a freebie by law if the person was of a lower station in life than yourself.

The person doing this slapping was more than likely someone that was used to exalting himself over his subordinates by this method. He's done it a thousands times to remind his subordinates of his unquestionable power and authority over them and quite possibly enjoyed it too.

The person that was getting the backhanded slap to the right cheek had what three choices? Fight back and risk his life, run away and risk his life, or except it as an insult and carry on.

What reaction do you suppose the person doing the smitting was used to seeing after admonishing a subordinate in this fashion?

I would have to say he was used to seeing the except it and carry on response. Except this time he gets a different reaction his subordinate turns to him the other cheek, the left cheek...what now?

Can he backhand his right cheek again to deliver another stinging insult? Not with his face turned like that.

Can he hit them with his fist? No, this would be the same as striking a peer and equal, also he would be fined.

The whole point of the back of the hand is to reinforce institutionalized inequality, Jesus knew and understood this, the smitter knew and understood this, and as well the smitten knew and understood this.

What turning the other cheek is actually saying is this...try again your first blow failed to have it's intended effect. I deny you the power to humiliate me. I am a human being just like you. Your status does not alter that fact. You cannot demean me.

I interpret Mat 5:39 this way...Do not counter evil in kind, seize the moral initiative, find a creative alternative to violence, assert your own humanity and dignity as a person, meet force with ridicule or humor, break the cycle of humilation, refuse to submit or to accept the inferior position, expose the injustice of the system, take control of the power dynamic, shame the oppressor into repentance, stand your ground, make the powers make decisions they are not prepared for, recognize your own power, be willing to suffer rather than retaliate, force the opressor to see you in a new light, deprive the oppressor of a situation where a show of force is effective, be willing to undergo the penalty of breakin unjust laws, die to fear of the old order and it's rules, seek the oppressor transformation.

 

I never said it did.

I never said anything about the church in regards to the topic.

I think to apply that to the topic of the opening post is to take that scriprure out of context.

 

Johnv,

LT

Sorry misread your previous post.

 

England was ordained by God.

5. The first christians were unequally yoked together with unbelievers. The pilgrims made a "solemn" pact with all who were on the Mayflower, believers and non-believers. Were they believers? Yes.

6. Is our purpose as christians on this earth to establish worldly kingdom? No.

7. Are we to be entangle with the affairs of this world? No. </font>[/QUOTE]OK lets go back to the original question in which I posted 7 premises that I believe support my position which I believe was clear. If my premises are correct then I rest my case.
LT

 

read the last quote. It is God who exacts the judgement.

 

So I take it you agree with me that we as christians should accept insults whether physical or verbal and not avenge ourselves when abused. Remember the context is "resist not evil."

 

Read previous to that. Is He or is He not addressing the reader of Revelation?

 

Read previous to that. Is He or is He not addressing the reader of Revelation? </font>[/QUOTE]It is not a command to the reader. It is a proclaimation of judgement which God Himself fulfills in verses 8 and 20.
LT

 

Then the compound imperative statement is giving God orders: "Come out of her my people... pay her according to what she has paid you; give her double..."

But this is the only place in scripture God is addressed as "my people." Usually He is the one addressing us that way. In fact, I think this is still the case here.

 

CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT. What do the rest of the verses tell us?

 

Eltrow wrote

You could say that I agree with you that we are not to avenge ourselves whent abused. Yes. But, please do not mistake that with me being in agreement on letting an abuser take control of the situation by laying down and doing nothing.

What is your interpertation of "resist not evil"?

 

You could say that I agree with you that we are not to avenge ourselves whent abused. Yes. But, please do not mistake that with me being in agreement on letting an abuser take control of the situation by laying down and doing nothing.

What is your interpertation of "resist not evil"? </font>[/QUOTE]My only purpose here on this earth is to proclaim the gospel to all I can thus giving glory to my Lord. I cannot be distracted by "entangling myself" with the affairs of this world. Evil is going to proceed until Jesus returns. Satan controls all unbelievers at his whim, but I have passed out of his kingdom into the Kingdom of Heaven. I am an ambasador in a foreign land.

 

Your purpose is worthy. Evil will continue until Jesus comes. Satan does his best but he can't be everywhere to once. You have passed into another kingdom but your embasy is smack in the middle of Satans playground and he is a serious dude.

Sometimes the world "entangles" itself with you and there ain't nothin you can do about it.

All these Bible verses and noble talk is okay but your commanded to feed the poor, visit the sick, and clothe the naked, and your also commanded to love your enemy. How are you going to do all that if you do not entangle yourself in the world?

Do you watch the news or read the newspaper, have kids in school, spend alot of time on forums writting long posts? Those are entanglements my brother.

 

We are told not to be "conformed" to the world but my guess is that you would dismiss the New World Order as a conpiracy theory. even though the Bible clearly says it is comming and to watch, listen. And BE READY.

 

And what is your interpretaion of "resist not evil"?

 

You are right, the embassy is in a hostile land. My Lord is Lord of all though and He will only make me bare what I can. 1Cor 10:13 He knows me better than I know myself. You are also right - Talk is cheap. I don't have time for TV(ever), movies, games, etc. I'm spreading the word best way I know (even right now). I'm never ENTANGLED if I am doing the will of God. I'm alway entangled if what I do is not according to the word of God.(Rom. 14:23)
As Paul says "I die daily" and as Jesus is my example I want to do nothing save that which the Father tells me.
LT

 

I admire your zeal for the Lord and dedication to spreading the gospel. I pray you never have to find the limits of what you can endure. My youngest brother found his at the end of a barrel in the woods all alone aged twenty eight.

Live for Christ, love your neighbor, be kind to those that have known no kindness, but take time to relax and enjoy life, Jesus did.

 

Those that don't see it have their heads in the sand. Good prayer to pray -

 

I watch, I pray, and I prepare.

As far as the rapture, I think of myself as a pre wrath man, but as this belief makes no difference as to my salvation.

I hope for the best but expect the worst so therefore I act accordingly...I prepare for the worst.

 

Anyways, to answer the question of this topic.

"Did God have a hand in establishing the US"?

Yes.

I expect it will take you some time to prepare your interpretation of "resist not evil" so i'm going to bed.

Good night and God bless.