Did I miss the bailout thread?

[LeBuick]

I don't see a bailout thread so guess I'll start one...

Today I am extremely proud of Bush. He surprised me but I think he came up with the best possible solution. He is giving the automakers the money they requested but they must prove themselves viable by March 31 or they will have to pay the money back at that time.

My translation of Bush solution is to tell them they have some tough decisions to make and it's not Governments job to make those decisions for you. They need to sit at the table with UAW and make those decisions by March 31 or pay us back out money at that time.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/Business/story?id=6494698&page=1

The deal also includes non-binding "target" provisions, including making work rules and wages competitive with workers at foreign car companies in the U.S.

Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson will administer the plan until Jan. 20, at which point there will be another presidential designee to oversee the loans under the new administration.

If the companies cannot prove they are financially viable by March 31, the loans will be recalled and the money returned to the Treasury.

The White House is also calling for no dividends for stockholders until the money is paid back, and stipulating that the government can block transactions over $100 million.

Other non-binding targets of the plan include debt reductions by two-thirds as well as the elimination of jobs banks, a system that allows workers to get paid a large percentage of their wages even when they're not called in to work.

 

[moondg]

They need to sit at the table with UAW and make those decisions by March 31 or pay us back out money at that time.

What do you think the odds are they will pay back the money by March 31? I do not think there is any way how will they repay the loan? tehy would ned another bail out to pay it. If they could pay that kind of money they would not need the bail out.
we have got to stop giving away all this money. We cannot keep printing money!

 

[LeBuick]

They need to sit at the table with UAW and make those decisions by March 31 or pay us back out money at that time.

What do you think the odds are they will pay back the money by March 31? I do not think there is any way how will they repay the loan? tehy would ned another bail out to pay it. If they could pay that kind of money they would not need the bail out.
we have got to stop giving away all this money. We cannot keep printing money!

I see pay back the money as code word for bankruptcy...

It is incentive for UAW and management to work out a viable solution or they will be forced into bankruptcy where both sides will loose. I really hope UAW heeds this warning but I have a feeling they think Obama will protect labor. If you read the story, Obama supported Bush decision.

 

[donnA]

They need to sit at the table with UAW and make those decisions by March 31 or pay us back out money at that time.

What do you think the odds are they will pay back the money by March 31? I do not think there is any way how will they repay the loan? tehy would ned another bail out to pay it. If they could pay that kind of money they would not need the bail out.
we have got to stop giving away all this money. We cannot keep printing money!

Paying back the loan in March would only be if they could nto prove themselves viable by then.

 

[Pastor Larry]

If they are not proving viability, they won't have any money to pay back the loans.

 

[donnA]

If they sell in bankrupcy they will, all that land , buildings and machinary has to be worth a lot.

 

[4His_glory]

If they sell in bankrupcy they will, all that land , buildings and machinary has to be worth a lot.

I doubt that they would sell it all off in bankruptcy though. I can not see the industry ceasing to exist. I would expect some sort of reorganization in bankruptcy with the companies emerging from it without the burden of UAW demands.

At least that is what I would like to see.

 

[KenH]

Hopefully, unions will start to regain strength in this country. Perhaps getting the Employee Free Choice Act passed and signed into law will help.

I think that the UAW is quite willing to work with the domestic automakers to get a deal done and save them the companies from liquidation. If things don't work out I see liquidation as more likely than bankruptcy.

 

[Revmitchell]

The UAW let any deal fall through because the refused to give immediate concession. They are not willing to work to save anything.

 

[KenH]

They are not willing to work to save anything.

That is not true. I see no problem with giving the workers a chance to adjust to lower wages and/or benefits over a period of months. The government can definitely help to bring this about.

 

[4His_glory]

Hopefully, unions will start to regain strength in this country. Perhaps getting the Employee Free Choice Act passed and signed into law will help.

I think that the UAW is quite willing to work with the domestic automakers to get a deal done and save them the companies from liquidation. If things don't work out I see liquidation as more likely than bankruptcy.

The UAW is not willing to work the the automakers at all. They are one of the reasons that the industry is in trouble. The ridiculous demands they put on the companies to pay for their workers and provide benefits have left GM, Ford, and Chrysler in a bind.

There was a time that the unions were need. But they have outlived there usefulness and now are a problem.

 

[KenH]

But they have outlived there usefulness and now are a problem.

I couldn't disagree more. Without unions the living standards in this nation will degrade to those of third world countries, certainly to that of second world countries.

It is not a true statement to say that the UAW would not work with the domestic automakers at all.

As I said, hopefully, unions will be finally be given a level playing field through the Employee Free Choice Act next year.

 

[4His_glory]

I couldn't disagree more. Without unions the living standards in this nation will degrade to those of third world countries, certainly to that of second world countries.

It is not a true statement to say that the UAW would not work with the domestic automakers at all.

As I said, hopefully, unions will be finally be given a level playing field through the Employee Free Choice Act next year.

lol. I live in a country that is more unionized than the USA. There is a union for everything, and I can tell you that the standard of living is not like that of the United States.

The recent history of the UAW is that of making demands from the companies and an unwillingness to make concessions.

I remember that when Delphi was in danger financially not to long ago the company wanted to cut wages, but the union threatened a strike it they did. Seems illogical to me. Don´t cut wages and let the company sink and lay off a bunch of employees instead of cut everyones paycheck and fire no one.

 

[LeBuick]

The UAW is not willing to work the the automakers at all. They are one of the reasons that the industry is in trouble. The ridiculous demands they put on the companies to pay for their workers and provide benefits have left GM, Ford, and Chrysler in a bind.

There was a time that the unions were need. But they have outlived there usefulness and now are a problem.

There are two sides to any negotiation. The UAW can demand the world but management has to approve before there's an agreement. We shouldn't only fault the union for asking because management needs to take some blame for agreeing. You can bet with the perks the workers are getting that management has to be getting good perks also.

I don't think union(s) are the problem. In this case it's one union which is UAW. However, the workers will be fortunate they have the UAW as the industry makes these tough decisions. Without the UAW we know who would get shafted and it's a no brainier to know where all the deep cuts would be. Because they are organized, we should see more symmetrical cuts impacting both management and workers.

 

[LeBuick]

The recent history of the UAW is that of making demands from the companies and an unwillingness to make concessions.

This will make these tough decisions interesting.

UAW has appeared stubborn wanting to cling to things that never should have been agreed to in the first place. They feel these were major achievements and are clinging to them like a life boat in the ocean. UAW agreed to suspend the pay for laid off workers for two years while the GOP wanted them to eliminate it all together.

The balancing act is how bad do they want to cling to these perks because if the companies go bankrupt, the entire agreement will be void and they loose everything and start at square one. I am sure they don't want that either.

Now the curve ball in this deal is the Democrats moving into office. My hopes is that Obama sticks to the guns Bush has pointed at the industry. I think in Feb and early March, he needs to reiterate there will be no more bridge loans so they either come to an agreement or let the courts decide.

 

[KenH]

We have already learned in our nation's history how workers fare without unions at the beginning of the industrial age. I hope we don't have to relearn this lesson.

 

[Revmitchell]

JC was correct when he said the unions are irrelevant. There are far to many laws on the books that were not at the beginning of the industrial age.

 

[KenH]

JC was correct when he said the unions are irrelevant.

Well, I am on the side of those who support making unions relevant again. Leveling the playing field by passing and signing the Employee Free Choice Act would help greatly in this regard.

 

[carpro]

Hopefully, unions will start to regain strength in this country. Perhaps getting the Employee Free Choice Act passed and signed into law will help.

No it won't.

Instead it will cause people be even more suspicious of unions.

True Americans cherish their private vote and object to the intimidation tactics of unions chasing down and threatening those who vote against them.

It will backfire. Only a thouroughly crooked and dishonest organization would reauire individuals to vote publicly . That has long been the tactic of some of the most repressive and evil political regimes in the history of the world. It's no surprise unions prefer it.

 

[LeBuick]

Instead it will cause people be even more suspicious of unions.

True Americans cherish their private vote and object to the intimidation tactics of unions chasing down and threatening those who vote against them.

It will backfire. Only a thouroughly crooked and dishonest organization would reauire individuals to vote publicly . That has long been the tactic of some of the most repressive and evil political regimes in the history of the world. It's no surprise unions prefer it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I read of this legislation said the union can be voted in via some cards as opposed to the actual secret vote. So it seems if you don't want the union then you don't turn in this signed card.

What am I missing about this?