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Did the centurion personally talk to Jesus?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by xdisciplex, May 20, 2007.

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  1. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex New Member

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    This is really confusing. :(
    When you compare different gospel accounts then very often they don't really match up. It's like this with the story of the centurion and it's also like this with the 2 demoniacs and also the 2 blind people. In one gospel it's 2 demonics and 2 blind people and in another one it's only 1 demonic and only 1 blind. How is this possible? How does this fit together with infallibility and inspiration?
    Different accounts rather sound as if the writers had done research and simply gotten different information from different people. But when God told them what to write down why should God tell them different things?

    http://www.carm.org/diff/Matt8_5.htm

    http://www.carm.org/diff/Luke8_26.htm

    1. Two men (Matt. 8:28) - "And when He had come to the other side into the country of the Gadarenes, two men who were demon-possessed met Him as they were coming out of the tombs; they were so exceedingly violent that no one could pass by that road."
    2. One man (Mark 5:1-2) - "And they came to the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gerasenes. 2And when He had come out of the boat, immediately a man from the tombs with an unclean spirit met Him,"
    3. One man (Luke 8:26-27) - "And they sailed to the country of the Gerasenes, which is opposite Galilee. 27And when He had come out onto the land, He was met by a certain man from the city who was possessed with demons; and who had not put on any clothing for a long time, and was not living in a house, but in the tombs."
    1. Two blind men (Matthew 20:29-30) - "And as they were going out from Jericho, a great multitude followed Him. 30And behold, two blind men sitting by the road, hearing that Jesus was passing by, cried out, saying, "Lord, have mercy on us, Son of David!" ​
    2. One blind man (Mark 10:46-47) - "And they *came to Jericho. And as He was going out from Jericho with His disciples and a great multitude, a blind beggar named Bartimaeus, the son of Timaeus, was sitting by the road. 47And when he heard that it was Jesus the Nazarene, he began to cry out and say, "Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!" ​
    3. One blind man (Luke 18:35,38) - "And it came about that as He was approaching Jericho, a certain blind man was sitting by the road, begging...38And he called out, saying, "Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!"​
    Isn't this hair-splitting? I don't find this argumentation very convincing. :(
     
    #1 xdisciplex, May 20, 2007
  2. tragic_pizza

    tragic_pizza New Member

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    When someone needs all parts of the Bible to be in lockstep at every point, the hoops one has to jump through and the hairs which must be split are astounding.
     
    #2 tragic_pizza, May 21, 2007
  3. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    There is no detail reported about the crucifixion that would convince a stranger that Jesus was God.
     
    #3 billwald, May 21, 2007
  4. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    Billwald:

    "When you compare different gospel accounts then very often they don't really match up. It's like this with the story of the centurion and it's also like this with the 2 demoniacs and also the 2 blind people. In one gospel it's 2 demonics and 2 blind people and in another one it's only 1 demonic and only 1 blind. How is this possible? How does this fit together with infallibility and inspiration?
    Different accounts rather sound as if the writers had done research and simply gotten different information from different people. But when God told them what to write down why should God tell them different things?"

    GE:

    It's the same with the appearance-stories.

    The 'Reference Bibles' are the cause of all the confusion, because some wise guys tell us these different stories or incidents, aren't independent incidents, but the same and only story recorded with the contradictions and all!

    I say they are individual cases altogether, like the women who anointed Jesus - the one over his feet; the other over his head. What difficulties do these quasi-scholars cause so unnecessarily! Christianity gets mocked and ridiculed because of them - not because of ANY contradictions in the Gospels! I don't believe there are contradiction in the Scriptures; we either have translated wrongly or we understand wrongly. Its us - nothing wrong with the Scriptures.
     
    #4 Gerhard Ebersoehn, May 21, 2007
  5. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    Billwald:

    "When you compare different gospel accounts then very often they don't really match up. It's like this with the story of the centurion and it's also like this with the 2 demoniacs and also the 2 blind people. In one gospel it's 2 demonics and 2 blind people and in another one it's only 1 demonic and only 1 blind. How is this possible? How does this fit together with infallibility and inspiration?
    Different accounts rather sound as if the writers had done research and simply gotten different information from different people. But when God told them what to write down why should God tell them different things?"

    GE:

    It's the same with the appearance-stories.

    The 'Reference Bibles' are the cause of all the confusion, because some wise guys tell us these different stories or incidents, aren't independent incidents, but the same and only story recorded with the contradictions and all!

    I say they are individual cases altogether, like the women who anointed Jesus - the one over his feet; the other over his head. What difficulties do these quasi-scholars cause so unnecessarily! Christianity gets mocked and ridiculed because of them - not because of ANY contradictions in the Gospels! I don't believe there are contradiction in the Scriptures; we either have translated wrongly or we understand wrongly. Its us - nothing wrong with the Scriptures.
     
    #5 Gerhard Ebersoehn, May 21, 2007
  6. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    GE:

    Every detail reported of the crucifixion convinced me - a stranger - that Jesus was God, because exactly the detail as the greater story so perfectly fulfill every Word of God in the Scriptures. Never ever could the Passover's prophetic significance have been artificial or a hoax. If that could NOT persuade a man - the Holy Spirit creating a new heart to believe - he never will be persuaded even though ONE ROSE FROM THE DEAD!
     
    #6 Gerhard Ebersoehn, May 21, 2007
  7. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    GE:

    Paul told Timothy to be able to give account for the Faith that was in him. I find all parts and whole of the Bible to be in lockstep at every point. Why should it be contrary faith and Christian freedom? Must we be hulking and apologetic to be honest and composured Christians? Not that I claim I know and understand everything; but this I know, that God's Word is infallible and He, is faithful.
     
    #7 Gerhard Ebersoehn, May 21, 2007
  8. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Hi, xdx,

    If you will trust me on this, I have the definitive answer for you.

    By-the-by, I see that you made those links from CARM. I used to post at CARM at lot several years ago along with Helen and many other christians, but I found that debating the atheists and the undecided was draining to my spirit and was not profitable to me. Their minds were made up. None of them wanted to know the truth. It was just as important to them that the bible was all a big lie as it was important to me that the bible is God's Holy Word. They wanted to prolong the discord. I wanted to end it.

    ......Now, to the two accounts of the centurion soldier.

    The synoptic gospels differ in many ways. They are written by different people with different writing styles and have different audiences and difference emphasis.

    As far the accounts in Matthew 8 and Luke 7 of the centurion soldier, yes, Matthew says that the soldier "came to" Jesus and Luke says that the soldier "sent" messengers? Which is correct?

    They both are. One just gives more in-depth and explicit detail.

    Here's what I mean. I might tell you a story about my mother and my aunt having a conversation about flower gardens.

    I might say,
    • "My mother told my aunt that she should use MiracleGrow on her roses."
    My mother might say,
    • "When I was talking to my sister on the phone the other night, I told her to use MiracleGrow on her roses."
    My aunt might say,
    • "When I talked to my sister at the grocery store, (on the cell phone) she told me to buy some MiracleGrow and that it would really make a difference on my roses. It found it on aisle 4 and it was on sale.
    All three of us have told the truth. But not all of us have included the same details.

    I believe that Luke's account gives all of the explicit details. The centurion soldier sent the message to Jesus and "conversed" with him through messengers.

    Matthew's account tells the same story, but leaves out some of the details. When Matthew says that they two men had a conversation, it is quite possible and quote logical when compared to Luke that the conversation was via a mediator (messengers).

    Does that make the story confusing? Perhaps to anyone who mistakeningly believes that the synoptic gospels are supposed to give the same exact verbatim word-for-word accounts.

    They do tell the the exact same truths.....but some are more explicit in detail than others.

    Whether they spoke face-to-face or not isn't the crux of the story. The words passed between them is what is life-changing.

    Therein should be your focus.
     
    #8 Scarlett O., May 21, 2007
    Last edited: May 21, 2007
  9. tragic_pizza

    tragic_pizza New Member

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    You misunderstand me.
     
    #9 tragic_pizza, May 22, 2007
  10. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    GE:

    What you say MAY all be true. But it does NOT remove all the obstacles. Yours should not be made the ONLY alternative. I therefore agree with you "They do tell the the exact same truths.....", but they - te various accounts - do not tell the exact same events!

    For me, accepting the different and differing anecdotes for different and differing, solves the problem perfectly! ... and much easier.

    The more than one incident approach also solves the problem of chronology - and it is at this point that your solution offers no solution.

     
    #10 Gerhard Ebersoehn, May 25, 2007
  11. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    But here's an interesting one, try it! Did the centurion personally talk with Pilate?
     
    #11 Gerhard Ebersoehn, May 25, 2007
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