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Did William Miller Ever Stop Being A Baptist?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Zog Has-fallen, Jan 14, 2019.

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  1. Zog Has-fallen

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    I am a former Seventh-day Adventist and now a Seventh-day Millerite. From everything I know, I don’t believe that William Miller ever renounced his Baptist faith and I’m not aware of William Miller ever being disfellowshipped from a Baptist Church. A very sincere Seventh-day Adventist told me that my faith is very Baptist. If William Miller stayed a Baptist to the end of his life, then are Seventh-day Millerites Baptists of some sort?
     
  2. Zog Has-fallen

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    If the founder of the Millerite movement continued being a Baptist, then how could Seventh-day Millerites, the most legitimate heirs of William Miller's message, not be considered Baptists? I believe it's wrong that I'm labeled a Non Baptist just because I prefer the label Seventh-day Millerite. Seventh Day Baptists are Baptists.
     
  3. Zog Has-fallen

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    William Miller has been vindicated, just as he dreamed would happen. And it couldn’t happen to a better Baptist. See The Biblical Theology That Vindicates William Miller.
     
  4. Zog Has-fallen

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    So you’re certain that a prominent historical belief of virtually all the Reformers, including the Baptists, is garbage?
     
  5. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    A person would not have to make a formal renouncement of his former church if he departed from accepting its actual Baptist doctrines.

    You seem to be assuming a great deal on what you may speculate or what you do not know for sure.
     
  6. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Someone can be sincerely wrong. Are you trusting in that person's opinion?

    How do you know whether that non-Baptist actually knows what Baptist doctrine is?
     
  7. Zog Has-fallen

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    OK. So then, did William Miller depart from the accepted Baptist doctrines of his day? Did William Miller Ever Stop Being A Baptist?
     
  8. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    You are the one who is trying to claim that he remained a good Baptist.
    Just asking and repeating the same question does not prove anything.
    It is up to you to prove what you are trying to claim instead of merely trying to assume it. Were his new teachings Baptist doctrines?
     
    #8 Logos1560, Feb 5, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
  9. Zog Has-fallen

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    No. I only said that I believe it from everything I know. And did you not notice that the thread title is a question?

    Did William Miller Ever Stop Being A Baptist?
     
    #9 Zog Has-fallen, Feb 5, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I'm a Baptist, & neither I nor the congregation I'm in believe that garbage. We believe the pope is a man-made invented office and Israel ios literal Israel. And we believe the antichrist/beast is yet to come.
     
  11. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I believe ole Billy was discredited when his 1844 prophecy blew up in his face. He shoulda known JESUS said that no one but His Father knew the time of His return. Far as I'm concerned ole Billy was just another charlatan that had other charlatans (the Whites, among them) start a new cult from his stuff.
     
  12. Zog Has-fallen

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    So Baptists now repudiate a major belief of virtually all the Reformers?
     
  13. Zog Has-fallen

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    William Miller was given a license to preach by the Baptists in 1833 on the strength of his message that "Jesus Christ will come again to this earth, cleanse, purify, and take possession of the same, with all the saints, sometime between March 21, 1843, and March 21, 1844."
     
  14. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    At the end of his life, did he self identify as a Baptist?
     
  15. Zog Has-fallen

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    Yes. I just now discovered that to be the case. Furthermore, many Baptists have testified to the mighty power of the Holy Spirit that accompanied William Miller's preaching.

    Here are a few relevant excerpts from *Memoirs of William Miller by Sylvester Bliss.

    These lectures and sermons of Mr. Miller met the approval of a large number of the ministers of his denomination, with whose approbation, from this time, he went forth as a public laborer, endorsed and sanctioned by the following certificate: p. 120, Para. 4, [MEMOIRS].

    "*March 19, 1835. p. 120, Para. 5, [MEMOIRS].

    "This may certify, to whom it may concern, that we, whose names are hereunto affixed, -- being ministers in the denomination of regular Baptists, -- are personally acquainted with Bro. William Miller, the bearer of this certificate; that he is a member, and a licentiate in good regular standing, in the particular Baptist church, in Hampton, N. Y.; that we have heard his lectures on the subject of the Second Coming and Reign of our Lord Jesus Christ; and that we believe his views on that particular subject, as well as others pertaining to the gospel, are worthy to be known and read of all men. As such an one, we commend him to God, and the affectionate acceptance of our brethren in the precious Saviour. p. 120, Para. 6, [MEMOIRS].

    "*June 28, 1836. p. 120, Para. 7, [MEMOIRS].

    J. Sawyer, Jr., South Reading. E. Halping, Hampton. Amos Stearns, Fort Ann. Emerson Andrews, Lansingburgh. p. 120, Para. 8, [MEMOIRS].

    "Having heard the above-mentioned lectures, I see no way to avoid the conclusion that the coming of Christ will be as soon as 1843. p. 121, Para. 1, [MEMOIRS].

    R. S. Palmer, Stockholm, N. Y. Joel H. Green, Parishville. Silas Pratt, Nicholsville. Wareham Walker, Shaftsbury, Vt. Edw. B. Crandell, Lansingburgh, N. Y. James Ten Brooke, Panton, Vt. Edward Mitchell, Canada. Samuel B. Ryder, Jr., Canada. S. C. Dillaway, West Granville, N. Y. Wakeman G. Johnson, Whiting, Vt. B. Carpenter, Addison. J. Fuller, Poultney. Holland Turner, Plattsburg. A. Jones, Jr., Middlebury. Anthony Case, Cornwall. Albert Stone, Johnston. Prosper Powell, Troy, Vt. Samuel Marshall, Fort Ann, N. Y. Isaac Wescott, Stillwater. William W. Moor, Bristol. Edward S. Soullard, Middletown. p. 121, Para. 2, [MEMOIRS].

    "I do cordially recommend the above, and its bearer, Brother Miller. p. 121, Para. 3, [MEMOIRS].

    George Norris, Granville. Jehial K. Wright, Weybridge. M. D. Miller, Monkton. Simon Fletcher, Bridgeport, Vt. John A Dodge, Ferrisburg. Elias Hurlbut, Andover, Vt. Samuel Pollard, Weston, " Edmund Goodnough, Agent B.G.T.S. Arurah Allen, West Haven. Hiram Safford, Keeseville. Friend Blood, Brookfield. Benjamin Willard, East Williamstown. Lyman Culver, Barre. Isaiah Huntley, Jericho. John Lord, East Randolph, Mass. James M. Beeman, Westford, Vt. Oliver Ayer, Littleton, Mass." p. 122, Para. 1, [MEMOIRS].

    "The above I certify to be a true copy of an original Ministerial Recommendation, signed by the above-named persons. The sentiments I believe correct, and according to the word of God. I think it will be fulfilled in 1843, or thereabouts. p. 122, Para. 2, [MEMOIRS].

    Justus Da Lee, Cambridge." p. 122, Para. 3, [MEMOIRS].
     
  16. Zog Has-fallen

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    A Few Random Testimonies

    He [William Miller] visited Shaftsbury, Vt., the 23d of January, 1837, and gave his full course of sixteen lectures. At the close of one lecture, a Baptist clergyman arose, and stated that he had come there for the purpose of exposing the folly of Mr. M., but had to confess that he was confounded, convicted and converted. He acknowledged that he had applied various unhandsome appellations to Mr. Miller, calling him "the end of the world man," "the old visionary," "dreamer," "fanatic," and for which he felt covered with shame and confusion. That confession, evidently so honest, was like a thunderbolt on the audience. p. 126, Para. 2, [MEMOIRS].

    With the 1st of January, 1838, he commenced a second course of lectures at Lansingburgh, N. Y., in compliance with the urgent request of the Baptist church in that place, and of E. B. Crandall, their pastor. The lectures continued nine days, and were listened to by crowded and attentive audiences. The result also was most heartcheering. Infidelity had several strongholds in that neighborhood, and many of that class attended his lectures, and were greatly affected by them. In a letter dated on the 25th of that month, two weeks after the close of the lectures, a gentleman of that place writes to Mr. Miller: p. 126, Para. 5, [MEMOIRS].

    "I have never witnessed so powerful an effect in any place, as in this, on all who heard. I am of the opinion that not less than one hundred persons, who held infidel sentiments, are brought to believe the Bible. Infidelity is dumb in this place, as if frightened, and converts are many." p. 127, Para. 1, [MEMOIRS].

    The following testimony of one who was converted from infidelity during these lectures, is copied from the Boston Investigator (an infidel paper) of January, 1845. p. 127, Para. 2, [MEMOIRS].

    "MR. EDITOR: -- I was a warm supporter of the views of Abner Kneeland, attended his lectures and protracted dances, disbelieved in Divine Revelation and a future existence, and fully accorded with Mr. Kneeland's views of religion. Having read every work of note that I could obtain, and having heard many lectures opposed to God and the Bible, I considered myself prepared to overthrow the Christian faith, and feared no argument that could be brought from the Bible. With these feelings, I attended a full course of Mr. Miller's lectures. He gave his rules of interpretation, and pledged himself to prove his position. I approved of his rules, -- to which I refer you, -- and the result was, he established the fact that the Bible is what it purports to be -- the Word of God -- to my mind, beyond a doubt; and I have taken it as the man of my counsel. p. 127, Para. 3, [MEMOIRS].

    I notice your doubts of the truth of the statement in relation to hundreds of infidels being converted under the preaching of Mr. Miller. This may possibly be owing to your never having given Mr. Miller a candid and thorough hearing. He is a man mighty in the Scriptures, and has done terrible execution in the ranks of the 'King's enemies,' with the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God. I am personally acquainted with nearly one hundred, who held to similar views with Abner Kneeland, who were converted under the preaching of Mr. Miller; and we did not yield the point without a struggle, nor without due consideration. Each and every prop and refuge of infidelity and unbelief were taken away from us, and our sandy foundation was swept by the truth of the Almighty as chaff is driven by the wind. Yet we parted with them much as a man parts with a diseased tooth. We tried to cure and keep it there, and when made to know that the root and foundation was rotten, it was painful to part with; but we rejoiced and felt better after the separation; for there is balm in Gilead -- there is a Physician there. p. 127, Para. 4, [MEMOIRS].

    "Lansingburgh, N. Y., January, 1845." p. 128, Para. 1, [MEMOIRS].

    At the same date, Mr. Miller's son received a letter from Troy, N. Y., stating that "Rev. Mr. Hill is at present very anxious, and most of his church, for your father to come to East Troy first, and he has undertaken a negotiation with Elder Parke for your father to visit them half of the time." p. 130, Para. 4, [MEMOIRS].

    In compliance with these urgent requests, he commenced a course of lectures at West Troy, N. Y., on the 8th of March, and continued till the 15th, when he began in East Troy, where he continued till the 25th. These were attended with happy results. In March of the next year, the Rev. Mr. Parke wrote Mr. Miller as follows: p. 130, Para. 5, [MEMOIRS].

    "It is my privilege to say that God in mercy is doing a great work in West Troy. Old and young and middle-aged are alike made the happy recipients of grace. The Dutch Reformed church are enjoying an interesting state of things. The Methodists are full of the Spirit, and the Baptists are pressing on in the good cause. Praise the Lord! A number date their awakening to your lectures on the Second Coming of Christ. . . . You have great reason to rejoice that God is pleased to make you the honored instrument of awakening poor sinners." p. 131, Para. 1, [MEMOIRS].

     
  17. Zog Has-fallen

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    A Few More Randomly Selected Testimonies

    Previous to these lectures, he had received the following urgent request from Rev. Emerson Andrews, of the Baptist church in Rome, N. Y.: p. 131, Para. 2, [MEMOIRS].

    "Rome, N. Y., March 20, 1838. p. 131, Para. 3, [MEMOIRS].

    "DEAR BROTHER MILLER: -- . . . . We have heard something of you and yours, and want to see you here in person, and hear your whole course of lectures. I feel as if the time had arrived for you 'to preach the Gospel at Rome also.' There is more attention to religion now than formerly, and some anxiety. The desire to hear from you is very great. We want you to come immediately, the first Sunday if possible. Don't, I beg of you, make any delay, or excuse, but come right off. . . . I want you to be here before the time if possible." p. 131, Para. 4, [MEMOIRS].

    A gentleman in this place, on the 20th of February following, wrote to Mr. M. as follows: "I am happy to inform you that your labors with us have been blessed, and twenty have united with our church [the Baptist] since you left Montpelier, and twenty or thirty more will soon join, all of whom date their awakening at the time you lectured here. Brother Kellogg (the Congregationalist minister) is strong in the faith, and his views are with Brother Miller on the second coming of Christ." p. 132, Para. 4, [MEMOIRS].

    On the 1st of March, 1840, Mr. M. visited Watertown, Mass., and commenced his first course of lectures in that place. These continued nine days, and were attended by a crowded audience. Mr. M. was much pleased with his reception there, and, after leaving, wrote to his son:-- p. 145, Para. 1, [MEMOIRS].

    "I have never seen so great an effect in any one place as there. I preached last from Gen. 19:17. There were from a thousand to fifteen hundred present, and more than one hundred under conviction. One half of the congregation wept like children when I parted from them. Mr. Medbury, the Baptist minister, a good man, wept as though his heart would break when he took me by the hand, and, for himself and people, bade me farewell. He and many others fell upon my neck, and wept and kissed me, and sorrowed most of all that they should see my face no more. We could not get away for more than an hour, and finally we had to break away. About twenty were converted while I was there." p. 145, Para. 2, [MEMOIRS].

    Rev. R. B. Medbury afterwards gave the following account of the result of Mr. Miller's lectures there, through the "Signs of the Times":-- p. 145, Para. 3, [MEMOIRS].

    "For several months past we have enjoyed, and are still enjoying, a pleasing work of grace among us. This revival, as stated in the account published in the Christian Watchman of the 8th instant, was in progress when Mr. Miller commenced lecturing here. In speaking of the results of his labors, however, it is but just to say that his influence here preceded him. It will be recollected that, some time in January, he lectured at Cambridgeport, about four miles from us. Many, both of our church and congregation, attended one or more of those lectures. The first two subjects of the present work among us, as well as some others, who have since been hopefully converted, regarded those lectures as instrumental of fastening permanent conviction upon their minds. Several Christians, too, were awakened to a new sense of their duty. p. 145, Para. 4, [MEMOIRS].

    "There had, however, been rather more feeling than usual in several of our meetings previous to that time. And in the interval which elapsed between this time and the commencement of Mr. Miller's lectures here, the blessing of God had accompanied the means of grace at home to the hopeful conversion of about twenty. The work evidently received a new impulse while Mr. Miller was here. His lectures were attended by crowds, who listened with profound attention, and, we have reason to believe, in not a few cases with profit. Many persons from neighboring villages shared the benefit of his labors in common with us, and, in several cases, returned to their homes rejoicing. Other means of grace were, however, mingled with his labors, which were, no doubt, in a great degree owned and blessed of God. p. 145, Para. 5, [MEMOIRS].

    "Among those who have since united with our church, many have mentioned Mr. Miller's lectures as the means, under God, of bringing them to repentance. They have generally stated that, for months or years, they had thought more or less on the subject; but that, on hearing him, they felt it was time to take a stand. The things of eternity assumed to them an unwonted reality. Heaven was brought near, and they felt themselves guilty before God. It was not so much the belief that Christ might come in 1843 as it was the certainty of that event, with the conviction that they were not prepared to hail his coming with joy. Many, however, who listened to his whole course of lectures with a heart unmoved, have since been melted into contrition, and become the hopeful subjects of renewing grace. p. 146, Para. 1, [MEMOIRS].

    "Many Christians who attended Mr. Miller's lectures here have regarded them as the means of quickening them to new spiritual life. p. 146, Para. 2, [MEMOIRS].

    The minister and deacon retired. The gentleman then turned to Mr. Miller, and said that he and his four companions were infidels; that they had attended his lectures; had become quite interested; but had very curious feelings, and wished to know what ailed them. p. 176, Para. 5, [MEMOIRS].

    Mr. M. inquired whether they would attend any more of his lectures. p. 176, Para. 6, [MEMOIRS].

    They replied that they should lose none of them. p. 176, Para. 7, [MEMOIRS].

    "Well," said Mr. M., "I think I will not tell you what ails you; but, if you will give close attention during the week, I think you will find out." p. 176, Para. 8, [MEMOIRS].

    They attended his lectures, and, before the end of the week, with a number of others who had been infidels, were rejoicing in the goodness and forgiveness of God. At the close of his last lecture, one hundred and twenty persons voluntarily arose for prayers; a goodly number were soon rejoicing in the Saviour, and a glorious result followed. p. 176, Para. 9, [MEMOIRS].

    On the 10th of January, 1843, Mr. M. began a course of lectures in the Presbyterian church in Utica, N. Y., where an interest was elicited which extended to surrounding places. Invitations were received from many of the neighboring towns, which could not be complied with. The meetings closed on the 17th, when forty or fifty were inquiring what they should do to be saved. A good work had been commenced, which continued for several weeks. The "Methodist Reformer," published in that city, announced that "many thoughtless sinners and cold professors were stirred up to duty by them;" and the "Baptist Register" said, "Mr. Miller's appeals were often very pungent, and made a deep impression on the audience, and many came forward for prayer." p. 176, Para. 10, [MEMOIRS].
     
  18. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Didn't begin to address the FACT that Miller was discredited when his prophecy proved false.
     
  19. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I didn't see anything in what you posted about what he believed at the end of his life. Did he identify as Baptist after his prophecy failed?
     
  20. Zog Has-fallen

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    Yes. William Miller protested that he and his fellow believers were secretly disfellowshipped from his Baptist church. And I think it's pretty shameless and unchristian for a small minority in a church to treat the majority of believers that way.

    MEMOIRS OF WILLIAM MILLER, pp. 288-292 by Sylvester Bliss
     
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