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Diet Health Blue Zones and prophetic messages given to Ellen White on health

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BobRyan, Mar 15, 2018.

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  1. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    ... continued ...

    So, shall it not be crystal clear that Jesus Christ was upoholding that which is Commanded by God in His word, compared to the words of men? These texts are direct evidence of the continuing validity of that which is Commanded by God in His word. It is absolutely interesting to find that the Disciples/Apostles themselves never took these sayings of Jesus [in these passages] in the years of their following Him to mean that they could then suddenly eat anything they wanted, including Unclean animals, in all that time, or anytime thereafter.

    This means that Jesus is specifically upholding what God Commands and teaches in the face of man-made words [like those words added to the text, a very dangerous thing to do, for God speaks about what will happen to those who add or subtract from His word]. Take careful note of this, and do not "wrest" the scriptures to your own "destruction".

    The Pharisees were concerned about more than mere 'dirt', being contact with Gentiles in open places, such as Markets, etc. [Mark 7:2-5 KJB]

    Jesus speaks unto them and tells them [scribes/pharisees] that they are the ones who are nullifying God's word by their "tradition" [vs 3] and the vanity of the "doctrines of men" [vs 9].

    Jesus declares that it is the thoughts of the heart [inner disobedience/rebellion to God] which defiles. It is the rejection of the Commandments of God, the rebellion towards Him that defiles.

    Anyone who is disobeying the word/commandments of the LORD is defiling him/herself, and this would include disregarding His clear commandments in Leviticus and Deuteronomy on what may or may not be eaten, for it is inward rebellion and leads to sin [transgression of the law; 1 John 3:4].

    Afterall, sin of mankind began and involved eating something God said expressly not to eat...

    Even above all of this, the whole sum of this Parable is found here, as Jesus makes known that the True Defilement of a man, in the heart, is rejection of God for those tradtions and words of men, and compares it to the false defilement defined by the Pharisees, a supposed outward ceremonial uncleaness based upon their "tradition" which cast away the Gentile from being approached, or able to be brought to the Light of the Gospel of God:

    Matthew 15:20 KJB - These are [the things] which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

    So, the Disciples at the time had been eating a perfectly clean food, Grain of the field [or bread], with unwashen hands [that is to the Pharisee, ceremonially] and they were being called “unclean”, for not "washing" before they had eaten, for the Pharisees and the like, would always wash their hands from their supposed outward self-imposed ceremonial defilement, like after coming from an area of Markets which could have Gentiles and other such things, washed all things and their hands so that they would be "clean" and not associate with heatheness [Mark 7:4 KJB].

    Jesus declares to the Pharisees at that point, that it is the thoughts from the heart and the inner disobedience toward God and His Commandments that truly defile a person, and that “unwashen”, as the Pharisees defined, is not what makes a person actually “unclean”, as Jesus taught, in the heart.

    The entirety of Mark Chapter 7, along with Matthew Chapter 15, is not in any way, shape or form speaking about an elimination or lifting of the Levitical and Deuteronomic Food Laws of the Unclean animals, but is rather speaking about what truly defiles - disobedience to God's word/commandments.

    The Pharisees had come to the man-made conclusion and thought that by mere contact and touch with the Gentiles, or their items, that they would somehow contract their “uncleaness”, “impurity” and/or “heatheness” when in reality they were already disrespecting and disobeying the commandments of God for their own traditions and superstitions by creating a wall of "traditions" separating them from the very peoples they were to be the Light to, thus nullifying the very "Commandments" of God.

    The Jews were supposed to be the Light to the Gentiles, but instead they cut themselves off, distanced themselves and hoarded the Truth, until finally, they had become blinded in darkness, "... a form of Godliness, but denying the power thereof..." [2 Timothy 3:5 KJB].

    Look at the texts themselves in what Jesus said about the Parable:

    Mark 7:18 KJB - And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, [it] cannot defile him;

    Mark 7:19 KJB - Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

    Mark 7:20 KJB - And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

    Mark 7:21 KJB - For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

    Mark 7:22 KJB - Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

    Mark 7:23 KJB - All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.​

    The whole context of the passages in Mark 7 and Matthew 15 nowhere mention the standing Commandments of God on the "unclean" animals at all and is not the point of the Parable or the discourse Jesus had with the Pharisees. Christ Jesus was not only very concerned about physical health, but also very much the spiritual health of every person.

    Any person who eats the Unclean and the Abomination will cause great harm to their physical health, which will then affect their spiritual health, and will face those actions in the Final Judgment.

    Galatians 6:7 KJB - Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

    A person cannot go through life knowingly disregarding God on what He said we should not eat, and expect to remain healthy, whole, vibrant or even enter into the Kingdom of God in such outright and open-handed rebellion. For those who did not know, or who still do not know, God is long-suffering and merciful, but it also will still affect their health and life-span and the quality of those years.

    Jesus Christ did not die upon the Cross to 'cleanse' the pig, the shrimp, the octopus, the scallop, the catfish, the shark, the snake, the squirrel, the dog, the buzzard, the cockroach, etc., so that mankind could suddenly increase their buffet menu choices. He did not die so a person could smoke and drink and take in whatever they will. Cigarettes, alcohol, marijuana, cocaine, etc will destroy any person, religious or no.

    Many want a 'health plan' from mankind that will allow them to continue to eat/drink and do what they will, and they want a 'magick pill' to solve their cancers, diseases, sicknesses, and all the while they continue to refuse the health Plan of God written for their long-life of health, abundant joy and peace.

    The texts mention "evil thoughts" "from within" such as "wickedness", "foolishness" that lead to rebellion and disobedience to the clear commandments of God on this subject. Let us ask, "Did Jesus sin?" "Did Jesus teach others to transgress the law of God?" "Did Jesus teach to eat Unclean and the Abomination?" No, not in any text of scripture.

    As will be shown by further texts, Christians [the Apostles and Disciples even] actually continued to obey God in these Commandments, long after Jesus ascended into Heaven.

    ... to be continued ...
     
  2. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Romans 14 continued from...

    Diet Health Blue Zones and prophetic messages given to Ellen White on health

    Romans 14:1 KJB - Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, [but] not to doubtful disputations.

    Even at the beginning of Romans 14 [and yea, all of Romans], we see that we are dealing not with the abolition or setting aside of any of GOD's 10 Commandments or Health Laws in Diet, in any manner, as may be witnessed throughout [Romans 1:18, 3:31, 6:1-23, 7:7,12,14,16, 8:4-14, 9:6-8,27,31,32, 11:1-36, 12:1,2,5,9, 13:8-14, 15:1-27, 16:17-19], for Paul clearly says, “Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.” [Romans 3:31].

    ...the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men ...” [Romans 1:18;p] [“All unrighteousness is sin ...” [1 John 5:7;p]] [“...as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:” [Romans 11:26;p]]

    How did Paul teach about the Law, Ten Commandments, and Sin and Transgression just in the Book of Romans?

    ...keep the righteousness of the law ...” [Romans 2:26;p]

    “...if it fulfil the law ...” [Romans 2:27;p]

    “...we establish the law ...” [Romans 3:31;p]

    “... we are buried with him by baptism into death...that like as Christ was raised up... even so we also should walk in newness of life.” [Romans 6:4;p]

    “...our old man is crucified...we should not serve sin.” [Romans 6:6;p]

    “...he that is dead is freed from sin.” [Romans 6:7;p]

    “...in that he died, he died unto sin...he liveth unto God.” [Romans 6:10;p]

    “...reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.” [Romans 6:11;p]

    “Let not sin therefore reign...” [Romans 6:12;p]

    “Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God.” [Romans 6:13]

    “... shall we sin...God forbid.” [Romans 6:15;p]

    “Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” [Romans 6:16]

    “... ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.” [Romans 6:16;p]

    “...made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.” [Romans 6:18;p]

    “...as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.” [Romans 6:19;p]

    “...ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.” [Romans 6:20;p]

    “...fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things [is] death.” [Romans 6:21;p]

    “...made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.” [Romans 6:22;p]

    “... the wages of sin [is] death...” [Romans 6:23;p]

    “...[Is] the law sin? God forbid...I had not known sin, but by the law...I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.” [Romans 7:7;p]

    “...the commandment, which [was ordained] to life ...” [Romans 7:10;p]

    “...the law [is] holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.” [Romans 7:12;p]

    “For we know that the law is spiritual ...” [Romans 7:14;p]

    “...I consent unto the law that [it is] good.” [Romans 7:16;p]

    “That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” [Romans 8:4]

    “...they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.” [Romans 8:5;p]

    “...to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.” [Romans 8:6;p]

    “...the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.” [Romans 8:7;p]

    “...they that are in the flesh cannot please God.” [Romans 8:8;p]

    “...we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.” [Romans 8:12;p]

    “...if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” [Romans 8:13;p]

    “...the law of righteousness.” [Romans 9:31;p]

    “...Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.” [Romans 12:9;p]

    “Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.” [Romans 13:8]

    “For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” [Romans 13:9]

    “Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.” [Romans 13:10]

    “...cast off the works of darkness...” [Romans 13:12;p]

    “Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.” [Romans 13:13]

    “...make not provision for the flesh, to [fulfil] the lusts [thereof].” [Romans 13:14;p]

    How did Paul feel about the Ten Commandments, the Law, in other places?

    ...Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise; ) [Ephesians 6:2]

    “...the law [is] good, if a man use it lawfully ...” [1 Timothy 1:8;p]

    “For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.” [Galatians 2:18]

    Paul, in many of his Epistles [not even counting the Gospels, or the Epistles of others] lists and exemplifies the very Ten Commandments as relevant for the Christian, who are the ones which love God and man.

    ... to be continued ...
     
    #22 One Baptism, Mar 30, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018
  3. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    ... Romans 14 continued ...

    Paul's use of the Law of God, and the Commandments, the context of Romans 14:

    The TEN COMMANDMENTS, just in Paul's use...

    [01.] For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) [1 Corinthians 8:5] But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him. [1 Corinthians 8:6]

    [02.] But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and [from] fornication, and [from] things strangled, and [from] blood. [Acts 15:20] Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. [Acts 17:29] Neither be ye idolaters, as [were] some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. [1 Corinthians 10:7] Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry. [1 Corinthians 10:14] Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. [1 Corinthians 12:2] And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. [2 Corinthians 6:16] For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; [1 Thessalonians 1:9] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, [Galatians 5:20] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. [Galatians 5:21] For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. [Ephesians 5:5] Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: [Colossians 3:5]

    [03.] For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. [Romans 2:24] But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. [Colossians 3:8] Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. [Ephesians 5:4] Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and [his] doctrine be not blasphemed. [1 Timothy 6:1]

    [04.] But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down. [Acts 13:14] And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, [Ye] men [and] brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on. [Acts 13:15] Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with [his] hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience. [Acts 13:16] And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath [the Gentiles asked to hear the message on Sabbath, the 7th day, for more than Jews kept the HOLY Day of the LORD]. [Acts 13:42] And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city [“Jews and Gentiles”] together to hear the word of God. [Acts 13:44] For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day [for there were many Strangers seeking GOD and kept Sabbath, but were not yet circumcised to become a full Jew, see Isaiah 56:6]. [Acts 15:21] And on the sabbath we [We, being Paul and Luke [a converted gentile physician/historian]] went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made [Prayer being made on the Holy Sabbath out in nature]; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted [thither]. [Acts 16:13] And Paul, as his manner was [just as JESUS], went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, [compare Luke 4:16] [Acts 17:2] And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks. [Paul kept Sabbath every week for 1 ½ years (78 est. Sabbaths), see Acts 18:11 in a house connected to the Synagogue, the next best thing after removing himself from the Synagogue, see Acts 18:7, JESUS also foretold that many would be evicted from them, see John 16:2, but they continued to keep the 7th Day Sabbath of the 4th Commandment in homes, out in nature, etc.] [Acts 18:4] For he spake in a certain place of the seventh [day] on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. [Hebrews 4:4] And in this [place] again, If they shall enter into my rest. [Hebrews 4:5] Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: [Hebrews 4:6] Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. [Hebrews 4:7] For if Jesus [Joshua] had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. [Hebrews 4:8] There remaineth [Apoleipo, (passive voice) to be left behind for others, remain unchanged, be reserved, in this case NOT meaning “abandoned”] therefore [ie, because of the already given argument and example of the wilderness in Hebrews 3-4, in that they (Israel; the first generation people) entered not into the promised land because of unbelief and through unbelief failed to keep the commandments of GOD] a rest [Sabbatismos, literally keeping Sabbath] to the people of God [ie. Christians, Spiritual Israel are to keep the 7th Day Sabbath, for as we enter into the rest given by CHRIST JESUS, we are then able to cease from our sins and works to obtain salvation, abide in HIM, and we trust/rest in HIM and obey HIM when HE asks us, "if ye love me keep my commandments" as is found in Exodus 20:6 and John 14:15]. [Hebrews 4:9] For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from his. [Hebrews 4:10] Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. [Hebrews 4:11]

    [05.] Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. [Ephesians 6:1] Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise; ) [Ephesians 6:2] That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. [Ephesians 6:3] Children, obey [your] parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord. [Colossians 3:20]

    [06.] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, [Romans 1:29] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. [Romans 1:32] For this, ... Thou shalt not kill, ... and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." [Romans 13:9;p]

    [07.] For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery...and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." [Romans 13:9;p] Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord. [Colossians 3:18] Husbands, love [your] wives, and be not bitter against them. [Colossians 3:19]

    [08.] "...a man should not steal, dost thou steal?" [Romans 2:21;p] "For this, ... Thou shalt not steal,...and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." [Romans 13:9;p] Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with [his] hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. [Ephesians 4:28]

    [09.] "...Thou shalt not bear false witness...and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." [Romans 13:9;p] Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; [Colossians 3:9]

    [10.] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, [Romans 1:29] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. [Romans 1:32] What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. [Romans 7:7] "For this, ... Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." [Romans 13:9;p] But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; [Ephesians 5:3] Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: [Colossians 3:5] "[Let your] conversation [be] without covetousness..." [Hebrews 13:5;p]​

    ... to be continued ...
     
  4. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    ... Romans 14 continued ...

    We clearly see that, rather than dealing with the tearing down of the Ten Commandments [and any therein], or any of the Health and Dietary Laws, we are instead dealing with Christians [who are followers of God in His Commandments and ways] that are "weak in the faith", who are to be “receive[d]” but not to “doubtful disputations” [Romans 14:1 KJB].

    Paul follows the same thoughts in Romans 15, by saying that those who are “...strong...” [even as Paul is, “we”], should “...bear the infirmities of the weak...” [Romans 15:1]:

    Romans 15:1 KJB - We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.

    Romans 15:2 KJB - Let every one of us please [his] neighbour for [his] good to edification.

    Romans 15:3 KJB - For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.

    Romans 15:4 KJB - For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

    Romans 15:5 KJB - Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:

    Romans 15:6 KJB - That ye may with one mind [and] one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Romans 15:7 KJB - Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.

    The 4th Commandment [The Holy, Blessed and Sanctified 7th Day Sabbath of the LORD thy GOD; Exodus 20:8-11] and the Health Laws of Clean and Unclean, and that between Holy and Unholy were never ever "...doubtful..." [see: Exodus 20:8-11; Deuteronomy; Leviticus and Isaiah 66:17, etc], nor matters to have “...disputations...” over of whether they should be kept. Paul clearly stated as such, by saying/writing that he, “...had not known sin, but by the Law...” [Romans 7:7;p], even directly citing the 10th Commandment so as there would be no confusion as to which LAW he referred to, “...the Law had said, Thou shalt not covet.” [Romans 7:7;p, 13:9; citing Exodus 20:17], for as clearly as John the 'beloved' Apostle said, “...for sin is the transgression of the Law.” [1 John 3:4], and Paul moreso says that, “...the wages for sin [are] death...” [Romans 6:23] and “...whatsoever [is] not of Faith is sin.” [Romans 14:23].

    Paul, also several times [even in the Book of Romans, just prior to the Romans 14 passages], cited the entirety of the 2nd Table of the Ten Commandments, and parts thereof elsewhere in other Epistles,

    Romans 13:9 KJB - For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    Paul also sums up the whole of the Ten Commandments together elsewhere by saying, “For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” [Galatians 5:14], and each time, this is said in his Epistles, it is a brief summation of the Ten Commandments and also a direct quotation from not only Jesus Christ Himself, “And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” [Matthew 22:39] and “And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.” [Mark 12:31] and “And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.” [Luke 10:27], but also from the very Old Testament book of Leviticus: “Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.” [Leviticus 19:17] and “Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I [am] the LORD.” [Leviticus 19:18].

    The very context of those quotations are in the consideration of the very Ten Commandments themselves, dealing with “sin” and “love” [John 14:15; Exodus 20:6 KJB]:

    Leviticus 19:17 KJB - Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

    Leviticus 19:18 KJB - Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I [am] the LORD.​

    Mark 12:31 KJB - And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.​

    Notice, it does not say no other commandments than these, but rather none "greater" than these...

    Mark 12:30 KJB - And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment.

    Deuteronomy 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
    The Ten Commandments given again in Deuteronomy 5 [see also Deuteronomy 6:1-2, etc].

    Deuteronomy 6:6 KJB - And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:​

    So we see that the "...weak in faith..." were to be "...receive[d]..." [Romans 14:1; 15:1-7] and helped and edified in Christian brotherly love, “...for God hath received him...” [Romans 14:3] and they “...shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand...” [Romans 14:4] by faith. Many Gentiles were coming to believe by faith and were coming into the “...one fold...” [John 10:16] and “...one Body...” [Romans 12:4,5; 1 Corinthians 6:16, 10:17, 12:12-14,18,19,20,25; Ephesians 2:16, 4:4; Colossians 3:15] and “...Bride...” [John 3:29; “chaste virgin” [2 Corinthians 11:2]] of Christ Jesus, as it is written, “...the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants … taketh hold of my covenant.” [Isaiah 56:6] and as says Paul of them, “...how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;” [1 Thessalonians 1:9] and witnessed amidst the Jerusalem Council, how these “...Gentiles are turned to God:” [Acts 15:19], for they in times past “...knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods” [Galatians 4:8], “...that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God...” [1 Corinthians 10:20] and “...being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;” [Romans 11:17], for “...after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.” [1 Corinthians 1:21].

    ... to be continued ...
     
    #24 One Baptism, Mar 30, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018
  5. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    ... Romans 14 continued ...

    For as Paul says, the Gentiles of Faith [even as the Jews of Faith], receiving the free gift of salvation in Christ Jesus by Grace through Faith, were not looking to escape the Commandments of God, nor earn their salvation in keeping them, but were seeking to obey Him in them by Love and Faith as the fruit produced of the saving relationship, being the work and salvation of Christ Jesus in them, they abiding in the pure vine:

    Romans 8:14 KJB - For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

    Romans 9:6 KJB - Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:

    Romans 9:7 KJB - Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

    Romans 9:8 KJB - That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

    Romans 9:27 KJB - Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

    Romans 9:31 KJB - But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

    Romans 9:32 KJB - Wherefore? Because [they sought it] not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

    [but if they had sought it by Faith ...]

    Romans 11:17 KJB - And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

    Romans 11:18 KJB - Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

    Romans 11:22 KJB - Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

    Romans 12:1 KJB - I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service.

    Romans 12:2 KJB - And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

    Romans 12:5 KJB - So we, [being] many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

    Romans 12:9 KJB - [Let] love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

    Romans 15:9 KJB - And that the Gentiles might glorify God for [his] mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name

    Romans 15:10 KJB - And again he saith,
    Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.

    Romans 15:11 KJB - And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people.

    Romans 15:16 KJB - That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that
    the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

    Romans 15:18 KJB - For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me,
    to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

    Romans 16:17 KJB - Now I beseech you, brethren,
    mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

    Romans 16:18 KJB - For
    they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

    Romans 16:19 KJB - For
    your obedience is come abroad unto all [men]. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

    However, matters began to arise amidst the 'Jewish' and 'Gentile' Christians over certain issues which required immediate attention and direction lest division between them be complete and never to be halted.

    In Romans 14:2-7 KJB we see that the “doubtful disputations” [Romans 14:1 KJB] were occurring over these “weak in faith” [Romans 14:1 KJB] who were being “despis[ed]” [Romans 14:3 KJB], while they likewise in return condemned and/or “judge[d]” [Romans 14:3 KJB] those not doing as they in the matters at hand, concerning certain food and days of which “men esteeme[d]”.

    Romans 14:2 KJB - For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

    Romans 14:3 KJB - Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

    Now, lest we abuse and “wrest” these scriptures in forcing them to justify non-sanctified practices [according to God], we must begin to study as to what the particulars were that were being addressed in these “doubtful disputations” [Romans 14:1].

    We should first consider that Paul more than likely wrote the Letter to the Romans while at Corinth with the brethren and church there, for he “...departed for to go into Macedonia...” [Acts 20:1], and so “...he came into Greece...” [Acts 20:2], and “...abode three months...” [Acts 20:3]; and also noted in the end of the Letter to the Romans, he commends unto them “...Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea...” [Romans 16:1] [Cenchrea, a city close to Corinth], and also mentions “Gaius mine host, and of the whole church...” [Romans 16:23] who had been baptized of Paul as mentioned in his Letter to the Corinthians, “...I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius” [1 Corinthians 1:14] and also then finally mentions “...Erastus the chamberlain of the city saluteth you...” [Romans 16:23], who, himself, “...abode at Corinth...” [2 Timothy 4:20], or if not directly within Corinth, then very near the area and shortly within the same time, since in those letters, he also deals with some of the very same issues [1 Corinthians 8 and 1 Corinthians 10] as coming to the fore in Romans 14.

    [As a sidenote, others also suggest this notion, that the Letter to the Romans was written from Corinth, etc.

    To God only wise, [be] glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen. [[[Written to the Romans from Corinthus, [and sent] by Phebe servant of the church at Cenchrea.]]] Romans 16:27 [Bracketed witnessed of the Stephens 1550 Textus Receptus, addition by the editors as a notation]

    monw sofw qew dia ihsou cristou w h doxa eiV touV aiwnaV amhn [pros rwmaious egrafh apo korinqou dia foibhs ths diakonou ths en kegcreais ekklhsias] - Romans 16 - Parallel Greek New Testament - HTML Bible by johnhurt.com

    “The letter was most probably written while Paul was in Corinth, and probably while he was staying in the house of Gaius and transcribed by Tertius his amanuensis.[5] There are a number of reasons Corinth is most plausible. Paul was about to travel to Jerusalem on writing the letter, which matches Acts [Acts 20:3] where it is reported that Paul stayed for three months in Greece. This probably implies Corinth as it was the location of Paul’s greatest missionary success in Greece.[6] Additionally Phoebe was a deacon of the church in Cenchreae, a port to the east of Corinth, and would have been able to convey the letter to Rome after passing through Corinth and taking a ship from Corinth’s west port.[6] Erastus, mentioned in Romans 16:23, also lived in Corinth being the city's commissioner for public works and city treasurer at various times, again indicating that the letter was written in Corinth.[7]” - Epistle to the Romans - Wikipedia

    “...During his stay in Corinth, Paul is believed to have written his Letter to the church in Rome. According to this Letter, either on his way from Macedonia or during his three months stay in Greece ...” - Maps of Pauls missionary journeys]​

    ... to be continued ...
     
  6. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    ... Romans 14 continued ...

    We find in those Corinthian Letters, some of the very same mentions and uses of words, and uses them in context of conscience of idols:

    1 Corinthins 8:4 KJB - “As concerning therefore the eating of those things...”

    1 Corinthins 8:7 KJB - “...some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat... and their conscience being weak is defiled.”

    1 Corinthins 8:9 KJB - But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.

    1 Corinthins 8:12 KJB - But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.

    1 Corinthins 8:13 KJB - Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

    1 Corinthins 10:18 KJB - “...are not they which eat … partakers of the altar...”

    1 Corinthins 10:24 KJB - Let no man seek his own, but every man another's [wealth].

    1 Corinthins 10:29 KJB - Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another [man's] conscience?

    1 Corinthins 10:31 KJB - Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

    1 Corinthins 10:33 KJB - Even as I please all [men] in all [things], not seeking mine own profit, but the [profit] of many, that they may be saved.

    And as may be seen, the matter is not over Abominable/Unclean animals being 'sanctified' or 'eaten' amongst 'Jew' or 'Gentile' Christian [for God had already made clear and known HIS rules in them; [Leviticus 7:26, 17:12-14, 19:26; Deuteronomy 12:16,23, 15:23 KJB], etc., and this is also clearly known in Acts 10 and 11 by Peter and in the Jerusalem Council of Acts 15 KJB that these rules were not overthrown, but stood and confirmed], but rather over the eating of the “clean” animals that had been first sacrificed unto idols, and 'blessed' by pagan deities, and then sold in the markets/“shambles”. As later made known in the Council of Acts 15 KJB it was surely clarified to the 'Gentile' Christians to avoid all idolatry, the “pollutions of idols” [Acts 15:20 KJB], even “abstain from meats offered to idols” [Acts 15:29 KJB], “keep themselves from [things] offered to idols” [Acts 21:25 KJB], and even those things not killed properly, “strangled” [Acts 15:20,29, 21:25 JB] and that which contained “blood” [Acts 15:20,29, 21:25 KJB] still, and in so doing, “from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well” [Acts 15:29 KJB]. Paul knew well that these things were being divisive in the Churches, and so he wrote to them concerning it.

    So, then clearly in Romans 14:1-2 KJB, the “all things” that some “believeth” that he may “eat”, as written by Paul, is inherently and automatically limited within the context itself.

    Additionally, the “another” who would only “eateth herbs” are not “weak in the faith” based upon that they only “eateth herbs”, but the “weak[ness]” rather, is being based upon the conscientious reasoning [“esteemeth” [Romans 14:5,14 KJB], “regardeth” [Romans 14:6 KJB], “offence” [Romans 14:20 KJB], “condemneth” [Romans 14:22 KJB], “doubteth” [Romans 14:23 KJB]] being used to substantiate that practice.

    For it is obvious to anyone that to have Paul saying that anyone who “eateth herbs” only by default [such as a vegetarian/vegan, health reformer would] is “weak in the faith” automatically/inherently would be a great disservice to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and something he, himself, would never preach. It would also contradict the very next verses, and would also be foolish and very dangerous to have Paul saying that anyone may “eat all things” without any sort of limitation upon those words, for it would be counter to what Paul says throughout his Epistles and throughout the whole of the Word of God itself:

    Romans 14:3 KJB - Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

    Romans 14:4 KJB - Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.​

    So, there is obviously a limitation inherent in the “all things” [Romans 14:1 KJB] specified by Paul, lest we make the text declare that anyone may eat/drink even the most disgusting, abominable, unclean, poisonous and deadliest of things and presume upon the grace and mercy of God to spare us from our blatant, boldfaced and presumptuous iniquity. The problem then comes from when each individual person reading the text, coming with preconceived suppositions and without a deep consideration of the whole Bible, the Book of Romans itself, or Paul's other Epistles and the immediate contexts therein, lays upon that text and the “all things” their own 'sanctifying' standards as to what Paul is including/excluding in it, knowing full well in their own hearts, that they also do not think it means “all things” without exception either. The Bible is very clear about those who do such things, even in the very context of the Second Advent, “They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.” [Isaiah 66:17 KJB]

    Romans 14:5 KJB - One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

    Romans 14:6 KJB - He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.​

    Notice that Paul says, “...he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.” [Romans 14:6 KJB] Are we now to literally understand Paul as saying that such a person never eats and gives God thanks? That person would soon perish/die from starvation!

    Notice that Paul says, “...he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it].” [Romans 14:6 KJB]. Are we now to literally understand Paul as saying that such a person is to never regard this “day” [to which he refers] to the Lord? There are some who read this passage that way, but what misuse, for what is the contextual reference to? Is it to what God said is a Commandment, called, “My Holy Day” [Isaiah 58:13;p], and from “...my Commandments … and my Laws...” [Genesis 26:5; Exodus 16:8;p, also Jeremiah 31:31-33; Hebrews 8:8-10, 10:16; etc.] and “...mine assemblies … my sabbaths” [Ezekiel 44:24;p], and therefore reference to what “...GOD...commandeth...” [Acts 17:30;p], or does it rather point to what “...man esteemeth...”?

    It is to what ... man esteemeth ...” [Romans 14:5;p], among men, and within the allowances of God, which do not violate His law.

    But be warned:

    Luke 16:15 KJB - And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.​

    Jesus esteems the word, commandments of His Father:

    Job 23:12 KJB - Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food.

    Psalms 119:127 KJB - Therefore I love thy commandments above gold; yea, above fine gold.

    Psalms 119:128 KJB - Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.
    ... to be continued ...
     
    #26 One Baptism, Mar 30, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018
  7. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    ... Romans 14 continued ...

    The Holy, Blessed and and Sanctified 7th Day Sabbath is always the Sabbath of the Lord thy God, and is unchangeable, unalterable in its relationship to mankind, for whom it was “...made...” [Mark 2:27;p].

    We are always to, in living or dying, do all as “...unto the Lord...” [Romans 14:8;p] and always “...proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.” [Ephesians 5:10;p], and said of the believing Gentiles, “...among the Gentiles are turned to God;” [Acts 15:19;p], “...that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord.” [Acts 11:23;p], “...how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God.” [1 Thessalonians 1:9;p].

    What ...man esteemeth...” [Romans 14:5;p, see also Luke 16:15 KJB] in this thing, that Paul is referring to, is then a personal preferential choice allowed within the relationship to Christ Jesus in those times to either “regrardeth” or “regardeth not” a “day” “to the Lord”.

    What is this “one day” then?, for some would continue to implicate the 7th Day of the 4th Commandment, which is “the Sabbath of the Lord thy God” [Exodus 20:10;p], but we should know that this cannot be, knowing full well what Paul and the Word of God says elsewhere, and even the very clear actions of both Jew and Gentile, and Paul, etc. throughout the whole Book of Acts [Acts 13:14-16,27,42-44, 15:21, 16:13, 17:2, 18:4 KJB].

    We shall also notice therein something very specific concerning those of the Gentiles who were believing and coming into the Faith, they came to acknowledge their Creator, He also being their Redeemer, Re-Creator, “For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.” [Exodus 20:11], “Which made heaven, and earth, the sea, and all that therein [is]: which keepeth truth for ever:” [Psalms 146:6] as foretold, “Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;”[Isaiah 56:6]:

    Acts 4:24 KJB - And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou [art] God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:

    Acts 13:44 KJB - And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

    Acts 14:7 KJB - And there they preached the gospel.

    Acts 14:15 KJB - And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein: [Acts 14:15]

    Acts 14:15 KJB - Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.

    Let us look closer still at Romans 14:6:

    [Romans 14:6a] - He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord;

    [Romans 14:6b] - ...and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it].

    [Romans 14:6c] - ...He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks;

    [Romans 14:6d] - ...and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

    We notice that “eat[ing]” and “day/s” are directly linked together.

    In this text, we see that the problem that was being carried on between what should be loving Christian “brother/s” [Romans 14:10,13,15,21] was deeper than either the food “eat[en]”/“eat[en] not” or even the day “regard[ed]”/“regard[ed] not” [Romans 14:6], for it concerned a mutual wrongful, incorrect and unjustified condemnation or “judg[ment] [of] another man's servant” [Romans 14:4], they also being “Christ/s” [Romans 7-12,15], of the other in matters of that which “man esteemeth” [Romans 14:5;p].

    Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind” [Romans 14:5;p] are very important words to consider, especially in the light of what “man esteemeth” [Romans 14:5;p], for this was not about any contention of what God had already deemed as His Law and Commandment, being permanent, lawful and so - never to change in His Word [such as the Ten Commandments, and Health/Dietary Laws], for this was about matters of “conscience” [1 Corinthians 8 and 10] in that which was allowable [not that which was forbidden] but perhaps not immediately “expedient” and/or “edifying” [1 Corinthians 6:12, 10:23] presently. Paul speaks elsewhere of “[their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another” [Romans 2:15].

    Christian “charity” [1 Corinthians 13] was not being fully realized, so Paul reminded, contended and pleaded with them by saying, “For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.” [Romans 14:17] and also for them to “...follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another” [Romans 14:19].

    Due to the very nature of the subjects being discussed together, it concerned matters of “clean” meats/flesh/foods [that which had been allowed by God in His Word to be eaten] that were sold at market/“shambles” [1 Corinthians 10:25;p], which possibly had come from idolatrous sellers, “...for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat [it] as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.” [1 Corinthians 8:7], and others who having “not in [them] that knowledge” [1 Corinthians 8:7] that “...an idol [is] nothing in the world...” [1 Corinthians 8:4] and so being designated “weak in the faith” [Romans 14:1] chose to “eateth herbs” [Romans 14:1] only for that reason, and were condemning those who did so eat, while those who ate despised those as “weak” who did not.

    … [“meat” KJV Romans 14:15], including “flesh” [Romans 14:21], “drink” [Romans 14:17], including “wine” [pure juice of the grape, more indepth study separately to come on this subject of "wines" in the Bible, for some Jewish believers in Christ Jesus were still under vows, like Nazarite vows] [Romans 14:21] and “day/s” [Romans 14:5-6] …

    Amos 2:8 KJB - And they lay [themselves] down upon clothes laid to pledge by every altar, and they drink the wine of the condemned [in] the house of their god.

    Fermented alcoholic and intoxicating "wine" was always associated with wickedness, transgression and lawlessness:

    Proverbs 20:1 KJB - Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

    Isaiah 5:20 KJB - Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

    Isaiah 5:22 KJB - Woe unto [them that are] mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:

    Isaiah 5:23 KJB - Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!

    Isaiah 5:24 KJB - Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, [so] their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.
    ... to be continued ...
     
  8. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    ... Romans 14 continued ...

    Romans 14:20 KJB - For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed [are] pure; but [it is] evil for that man who eateth with offence.

    1 Timothy 1:15 KJB - Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and [of] a good conscience, and [of] faith unfeigned:

    Titus 1:15 KJB - Unto the pure all things [are] pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving [is] nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

    How were these things "pure"? The "pig", etc [the abominable nad unclean from Leviticus and Deuteronomy, etc] was not "pure" for eating, etc. It is speaking to that which is spiritually defiling, dealing with the idols and their associating or pagan deity [diet-y, a play on words] blessings over it. An idol is nothing, and Paul knew it. However, in matters of conscience of the idol and its association with that which is eaten, then this can become sin to those weak in the faith.

    Another matter that seemed to be prevalent was also over the specific days of fasting and/or feasting, the “one day” directly associated with “meat [food] and drink” [Romans 14:17], “eat[ing] and drink[ing]” [Luke 5:33], etc.

    Jesus Christ and the disciples themselves were constantly harassed about these things, especially upon the matter of fasting/feasting, not only from the Pharisaical Jews, but even from the Disciples of John:

    Matthew 9:14 KJB - Then came to him the disciples of John, saying, Why do we and the Pharisees fast oft, but thy disciples fast not?

    Mark 2:18 KJB - And the disciples of John and of the Pharisees used to fast: and they come and say unto him, Why do the disciples of John and of the Pharisees fast, but thy disciples fast not?

    The Pharisaical Jews also came to Jesus [Matthew 11:19; Luke 7:34 KJB] and the disciples over the matter:

    Luke 5:33 KJB - And they said unto him, Why do the disciples of John fast often, and make prayers, and likewise [the disciples] of the Pharisees; but thine eat and drink?

    The Pharisaical Jews even had specific and certain days picked out as required for fasting, declaring them better days to do so than others:

    Luke 18:12 KJB - “I fast twice in the week ...”

    Even among the “devout” [Acts 10:2] Gentiles, there was fasting:

    Acts 10:4 KJB - And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing,

    It should then be obvious that these “days” that “man esteemeth” are the personally chosen days for fasting [abstaining from] and/or rejoicing [partaking in]to the Lord”.


    Some were trying to compel all to be exactly alike in their manner of so doing those things, some fasted and rejoiced, others feasted and rejoiced, but each of them sought to impel the other to follow in like manner. Others were eating things that were known to have been first sacrificed unto idols in their feasting and rejoicing, knowing that an Idol was nothing, and some would not do any such thing, thinking it was sin and defilement. Both sides of the divisions were wrong in their condemnation of the other. Even those who knew better, were still not acting rightly toward those who were “weak in the faith”.

    1 Corinthians 8:7 KJB - Howbeit [there is] not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat [it] as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

    1 Corinthians 8:8 KJB - But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.

    1 Corinthians 8:9 KJB - But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
    Some of this same foolishness about certain special days to eat/not eat, drink/not drink on is declared even in the so-called Didache ...

    ... to be continued ...
     
  9. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    ... Romans 14 continued ...

    For in Romans 14:7 KJB, Paul makes it clear that we are to live unto Christ Jesus [who Created and Redeemed us, purchased us by His own blood] and that no man is an island unto himself, and that our choices affect not only ourselves, but also all of those around us:

    Romans 14:7 KJB - For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

    Romans 14:8 KJB - For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

    In Romans 14:10 KJB, we also see that dealing with incorrect judging and judgment of/by other Christians, over such personal matters of "fasting", "vows", "feasting/mourning" ["days" associated with "eating" or not "eating"] practices and also the matter of what to do with that which had been, or possibly was at one point in close connection with or associated with an idol [which is nothing, but some have not the knowledge, and all things edify not]:

    Romans 14:10 KJB - But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

    Romans 14:12 KJB - So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

    2 Corinthians 5:10 KJB - For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad.

    Therefore, the matter was Christian "charity" [love] [1 Corinthians 13 KJB] not being expressed as it ought:

    Romans 14:13 KJB - Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way.

    ... ie. don't do anything that would cause your brother to sin! [1 John 3:4 KJB]

    So we see that there is a correct and incorrect judgment:

    James 4:11 KJB - Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of [his] brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

    Scripture and Christ Jesus Himself, said,

    John 7:24 KJB - “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.”

    Paul, himself, said,

    1 Corinthians 6:2 KJB - “Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?”

    1 Corinthians 6:3 KJB - “Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?”

    1 Corinthians 6:4 KJB - “If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.”

    1 Corinthians 6:5 KJB - “I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

    1 Corinthians 10:15 KJB - “I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say.”

    1 Corinthians 14:29 KJB - “Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.”
    ... to be continued ...
     
  10. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Romans 14 continued ...

    So, what then shall we make of the following?:

    Romans 14;14 KJB - I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean [koinon; common, unclean by association] of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean [koinon; common, unclean by association], to him it is unclean [koinon; common, unclean by association].

    The greek word for “unclean” [Romans 14:14 (3 times)] is “koinon” and means “common”, being associated as such through contact with that which is unclean [akathartos].

    [“koinos” “κοινός” is not the same asakathartos” “ἀκάθαρτος”, as may be witnessed in several passages; “common [koinos] or unclean [akathartos]” Acts 10:14,28, 11:8, “...common or unclean...”, that which was normally “clean” of its own self, according to the Pharisaical mindset, when surrounded by “Unclean” [akathartos], as in the sheet let down in the vision of Peter, became “Common” [koinos] by association. We see that Paul, in Romans 14, is using this term [koinos] in comparison to food associated with idols/idolatry before being sold.]

    Strong's Concordance: “koinos” “κοινός” “1) common; 2) common i.e. ordinary, belonging to generality; a) by the Jews, unhallowed, profane, Levitically [by association] ceremonially unclean”

    The word “akathartos” is never used there.

    However, Paul says, even with that knowledge that an “Idol is nothing”, Christian “Charity” takes the “conscience” of another first into consideration before one's own:

    Romans 14:15 KJB - But if thy brother be grieved with [thy] meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

    Romans 14:20 KJB - For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed [are] pure; but [it is] evil for that man who eateth with offence. [

    Romans 14:21 KJB - [It is] good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

    Romans 14:16 KJB - Therefore, “Let not then your good be evil spoken of:”

    For instance, I could order 'take-out' [food, in my case plant-based] from a restaurant that may have nothing but pagan gods and images and things of that nature in the actual place, and the people themselves may be pagan false god worshippers, but the food I order [in my case plant-based] from there is just food.

    However, to someone who is weak in the faith may not see it that way, and may be violating their conscience if they ate of it if I offered it to them, or if I simply ate it in front of them on purpose knowing what they thought about it, they knowing where it came from, but they not knowing that the food [that which is allowed and sanctified of God in His Word] is just food and that idols are nothing.

    I could be in danger of causing that brother/sister to stumble and become weaker, or worse. It could even be worse, if someone saw me go to such a place and dine in. I could also be in danger myself, numbing my own conscience. It is better to “avoid all appearance of evil”. These kinds of things, among others, are being discussed in Romans 14.

    For even with that knowledge, that an “idol is nothing”, “...the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.” [Romans 14:17]

    And we should “...in these things serveth Christ...”, for then we are, “...acceptable to God, and approved of men.” [Romans 14:18], for we are not looking to cast off obedience to Christ Jesus in the Ten Commandments, which are His [John 14:15; Exodus 20:6, etc.], but rather to more fully obey Him in His Commandments, and to Love Him with all our heart, and our neighbour even as ourself.

    Romans 14:19 KJB - Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

    Psalms 119:165 KJB - Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.\

    Malchi 2:6 KJB - The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.

    Isaiah 48:18 KJB - O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

    Proverbs 3:1 KJB - My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments:

    Proverbs 3:13 KJB - Happy [is] the man [that] findeth wisdom, and the man [that] getteth understanding.

    Proverbs 3:17 KJB - Her ways [are] ways of pleasantness, and all her paths [are] peace.

    But when alone, and not in danger of violating the conscience of a weak brother/sister, in concerning those things mentioned of that which is allowed within the Commandments of GOD, and even concerning foods associated with idols, etc, “Hast thou faith? have [it] to thyself before God. Happy [is] he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.” [Romans 14:22], but even as a reminder to oneself, “And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin.” [Romans 14:23].

    And therefore,

    Romans 15:1 KJB - “We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.” [Romans 15:1]

    Romans 15:2 KJB - Let every one of us please [his] neighbour for [his] good to edification.

    Romans 15:3 KJB - "For even Christ pleased not himself ..."
    More may be given, and especially in Corinthians tied to Romans 14, but it is here that this overall look at Romans 14 will end.

    Summation:

    Romans 14 is about "faith" in matters of conscience, in one's personal life and walk with Jesus Christ, within the bounds of God's commandments, and about not doing anything that would cause a brother/sister to stumble and fall into sin and transgression of God's laws, morally, healthwise, etc, for the whole body of Christ Jesus is to be at-one-ment, to the building up, edification thereof; while knowing that even the allowable things are not always expedient to be done at all times, because of those weak in the faith and needing to be assisted by the strong, who briefly give over their right to do that which is allowable under normal circumstances, to be charitable to their brethren who are weak, even as Jesus Christ did [Matthew 17:27 KJB] and Paul elsewhere did [1 Corinthians 9 KJB]. There were unnecessary argumentations over allowable matters of what men esteemed amongst men, in matters of eating and drinking, and not eating and not drinking, feasting and fasting on this or that day "unto" the LORD, and of matters of Jews [some still under Nazarite vows, etc] and Gentiles [who had never taken such vows].


    Here is the heart of Romans 14:

    Romans 14:13 KJB - Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.​
     
  11. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Do you want to be free from metformin altogether and be restored to complete freedom?

    Mailing Address:

    Weimar Institute
    PO Box 486
    Weimar, CA 95736​
    Physical Address:

    Weimar Institute
    20601 West Paoli Lane
    Weimar, CA 95736​

    Call this number 1-530-422-7900 at the Weimar Health inst. in Wiemar, Ca, as they specialize in Diabetes, weight, and so on. Speak with a Dr. by phone there, and tell them what you are doing dietwise, and they can help you with instructions on how to be free of all crutches.
     
  12. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    That's enough SDA propaganda. We have no need to follow the details of the laws regarding sacrifices.
    I am enjoying good health & peace with God by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
    Bye.
     
  13. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Genesis 9:3 - "Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant."

    God doesn't change. While He gave the Israelis kosher & non-kosher, that was as a test of OBEDIENCE for God's peculiar people, not having anything to do with healthful diet.

    Obviously, there are certain plants & animals poisonous for us to eat, but everything else is game. The key is MODERATION.
     
  14. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Romans 12:1 KJB - I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

    The balm of Gilead is offered to you [Genesis 37:25; Jeremiah 8:22, 46:11 KJB]. The pharmakeia of this world, will never free you, but always keep you enslaved to it, ever having to rely upon it [Mark 5:26 KJB]. Jesus can set you free from metformin [John 8:32,36 KJB].
     
  15. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    This is no 'game'. The English bible [KJB] uses the word "temperance", which is not synoymous with the devil's 'moderation', which is what he implied about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, ~

    ~ jusssssst a ssssssmidgeon Eve ... ... it'ssssss all ssssssavory ... don't let your consssssscience be dissssssturbed, you won't ssssssuffer and come down with the ssssssicknessssss ... ... ssssssin.
     
    #35 One Baptism, Apr 2, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
  16. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    First, the KJV (NOT "KJB"!) is NOT "the English Bible". it's but one old, outdated version of it, not even in our current language.

    Second, I suggest you look up the definition of "temperance" and "moderation" in a dictionary.

    And the Greek word rendered 'temperance' in the KJV (NOT "KJB"!) is"egkrateia".I suggest you look up its meaning as well!

    Again, the key is MODERATION - not EGW's goofy diet!

    Here's a site exposing some of EGW's health hooey:

    Ellen G. White's health reform

    There's a SDA congregation in my 'hood. Its members suffer many of the same ailments as non-SDAs do, except the SDAs don't use tobacco, nor drink alcohol, coffee, or tea far as I know.

    As Paul said, each person should be persuaded in his/her own mind about what to eat/drink or abstain from. If you wish to follow EGW's silliness, that's between you and GOD. I certainly won't find fault. But if you become ill anyway, don't blame Desenex!
     
    #36 robycop3, Apr 3, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
  17. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Indeed, for it is written:

    Hebrews 13:8 KJB - Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

    Revelation 13:8 KJB - And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    Genesis 4:4 KJB - And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

    Genesis 7:2 KJB - Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

    Genesis 7:8 KJB - Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,

    Genesis 8:20 KJB - And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

    Genesis 9:4 KJB - But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

    Genesis 22:7 KJB - And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?

    Genesis 22:8 KJB - And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

    Leviticus 3:17 KJB - It shall be a perpetual statute for your generations throughout all your dwellings, that ye eat neither fat nor blood.

    Leviticus 10:10 KJB - And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;

    Leviticus 17:12 KJB - Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.

    Deuteronomy 18:12 KJB - For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.​

    Were Adam, Abel, Noah - Hebrews, Jews, 'Israeli's'? No.

    Abraham was an Hebrew, but not a Jew, nor an 'Israeli'.

    Moses was an Hebrew, but not a Jew, nor an 'Israeli'.

    All of mankind may trace their lineage and blood to Noah and thus unto Adam.

    Are "strangers" that were amongst the children of Israel, Jews? No. You do realize that God also forbids sorcery, witchcraft, etc, homosexuality, beastiality, fornication, polygamy & murder [all of which were wrong even in the days of Lamech unto the flood, [Genesis 4:19,23, 6:2,12 KJB], etc in those same texts when He was speaking by Moses to the children of Israel? All of them deal with health, either in body or mind. God does not change.

    1 Peter 1:15 KJB - But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

    1 Peter 1:16 KJB - Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

    Leviticus 11:45 KJB - For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.

    Leviticus 19:2 KJB - Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the LORD your God am holy.

    Leviticus 20:7 KJB - Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 20:26 KJB - And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD am holy, and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine.​

    The children of Israel were to be a light to the Gentiles:

    Deuteronomy 4:1 KJB - Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you.

    Deuteronomy 4:2 KJB - Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

    Deuteronomy 4:3 KJB - Your eyes have seen what the LORD did because of Baalpeor: for all the men that followed Baalpeor, the LORD thy God hath destroyed them from among you.

    Deuteronomy 4:4 KJB - But ye that did cleave unto the LORD your God are alive every one of you this day.

    Deuteronomy 4:5 KJB - Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it.

    Deuteronomy 4:6 KJB - Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.

    Deuteronomy 4:7 KJB - For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for?

    Deuteronomy 4:8 KJB - And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?

    1 Kings 10:1 KJB - And when the queen of Sheba heard of the fame of Solomon concerning the name of the LORD, she came to prove him with hard questions.

    1 Kings 10:2 KJB - And she came to Jerusalem with a very great train, with camels that bare spices, and very much gold, and precious stones: and when she was come to Solomon, she communed with him of all that was in her heart.

    1 Kings 10:3 KJB - And Solomon told her all her questions: there was not any thing hid from the king, which he told her not.

    1 Kings 10:4 KJB - And when the queen of Sheba had seen all Solomon's wisdom, and the house that he had built,

    1 Kings 10:5 KJB - And the meat of his table, and the sitting of his servants, and the attendance of his ministers, and their apparel, and his cupbearers, and his ascent by which he went up unto the house of the LORD; there was no more spirit in her.

    1 Kings 10:6 KJB - And she said to the king, It was a true report that I heard in mine own land of thy acts and of thy wisdom.

    1 Kings 10:7 KJB - Howbeit I believed not the words, until I came, and mine eyes had seen it: and, behold, the half was not told me: thy wisdom and prosperity exceedeth the fame which I heard.

    1 Kings 10:8 KJB - Happy are thy men, happy are these thy servants, which stand continually before thee, and that hear thy wisdom.

    1 Kings 10:9 KJB - Blessed be the LORD thy God, which delighted in thee, to set thee on the throne of Israel: because the LORD loved Israel for ever, therefore made he thee king, to do judgment and justice.
    Clean and unclean, holy and unholy, from Genesis to Revelation, has never changed:

    Isaiah 66:17 KJB - They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

    Acts 10:14 KJB - But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

    Acts 11:8 KJB - But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.

    Revelation 18:2 KJB - And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.​
     
  18. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    It's kinda like you're not even trying to respond from scripture anymore, but simply rely upon misleading, and already responded to apostates [for those who like to think they read, or even speak Greek, feel free to pronouce that 'A-pos-ta-tees'] with websites, who still do not understand even when they are shown from the Bible, science, etc. It's all been done before, many, many times over - Ellen G. White

    They refuse to listen, or respond any longer. They wall themselves behind websites and webforms, and closed exclusive forums [I tried to get into one once, but they weren't having it]. Their religion is ex-SDAism, the saddest thing of all. They are like unto the God-hater anti-creationists, who spend all their time battling against something which they vehemently affirm they do not believe in. Who are they foolin'? Only themselves.

    I have personally spoken with R.K. Sanders on at least one issue [Tithe], if not others, and he refuses to listen, and stopped talking to me, after I gave to him the evidences from scripture [KJB].

    They cannot defend their own arguments, and you think you are going to defend it for them, and you do not even know the material and subject matter under discussion? Please, spare us both the embarrasment.
     
    #38 One Baptism, Apr 3, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
  19. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    EGW was no more a prophet than Jungle Jimmy Jones was. And most of her dietary hooey has been proven wrong, or even harmful.

    Apparently, you have several false doctrines. besides the usual SDA garbage, you're also KJVO, which is phony as a Chevy Mustang.

    And I showed you the verse of Scripture where God said it's OK to eat any animal that's not outright poisonous or repulsive. (No person would eat a vulture, for example.)

    The laws of kosher and non-kosher were given to ISRAEL ONLY as a test of obedience for God's peculiar people. Nothing to do with health, except God sometimes used it for such as He did with Shadrach, Meshach, & Abednego in Nebuchadnezzar's court. You can't prove pork to be unhealthy.

    And you see Paul said that to eat or not eat certain foods was to be settled in each person's conscience. So, if you choose not to eat, that's YOUR thingie. As for me, if it tastes good & isn't unhealthy for me, I'll eat it.
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    lots of vitriol -- were you ever going to deal with the actual details in the thread?? ever?

    that loud harrrumph! and other forms of resolute determination as the content of your answer -- are a lot like a "soft whimper" when addressed to one is reading the details of scripture and looking for actual fact.

    You knew that right?
     
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