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Different Gospels?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by UZThD, Jun 2, 2005.

  1. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    I believe Jesus in John taught what Paul preached as his Gospel.

    If you disbelieve that , then I still wait for you to name just one thing that Paul said was his Gospel which Jesus did not teach in John.

    So far you've named:

    1) " salvation by faith,"

    --but Jesus in John taught that "who ever BELIEVES" will be saved.

    2) "to Gentiles too ,"


    --but Jesus in John taught taught "WHO EVER believes."


    Any other ideas?
     
  2. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    How do some on this Forum explain the fact that Jesus Christ first directly revealed Himself as the Messiah to someone the Jews considered lower than a Gentile, a Samaritan woman?

    John 4:24-26
    24. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
    25. The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
    26. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.


    John 4:39-42
    39. And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.
    40. So when the Samaritans were come unto him, they besought him that he would tarry with them: and he abode there two days.
    41. And many more believed because of his own word;
    42. And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.


    The Samaritans believed and were saved. How about that?
     
  3. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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    I believe Jesus in John taught what Paul preached as his Gospel.

    If you disbelieve that , then I still wait for you to name just one thing that Paul said was his Gospel which Jesus did not teach in John.

    So far you've named:

    1) " salvation by faith,"

    --but Jesus in John taught that "who ever BELIEVES" will be saved.

    2) "to Gentiles too ,"


    --but Jesus in John taught taught "WHO EVER believes."


    Any other ideas?
    [/QUOTE]

    Back to square one: First, you did not answer the question if you believed in the “great commission”.

    Do you believe in the “great commission” or do you believe John, and Paul? John came to believe and understand John 3:16 in this dispensation for Christ revealed understanding to Paul. John came to understand the gospel of Paul, and we are to do the same.

    Your 1), and 2) above is in error. I name through faith, and not by faith. This is the difference in John 3:16, and the gospel of Paul. Coming through faith before Christ revealed this to Paul was unknown by any one. It is not in scripture before Paul. All before came by faith, whether Jew or Gentile. We know this for Hebrews 11 tells us from Abel, to Enoch to Noah to Abraham, etc. all came by faith.

    John 3:16 was not brought to enlightenment and knowledge of such a saying until more than thirty years after the death of Paul. Jesus tells us in John 3 they could not understand earthly things, so how could they believe heavenly things. It was not for them to understand at the time he told them. But now, Christ has chosen his heavenly Apostle to explain things to us, for it is now time for the dispensational gospel of Paul to be preached to the world of “believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and we will be saved”. How is this possible? It is made possible “by the Grace of God that came through Christ Jesus”, which was impossible before He shed His blood. This is the time of God reconciling the world unto himself. Christian faith, ituttut Galatians 1:11-12
     
  4. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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    Hi OldReg. I believe things went in order. It seems earlier in John that John the Baptist knew, as did the disciples that Jesus was the Messiah, plus other “full” blooded Jews. To the Jew first, then work down to the Gentile, with Samaritans in the middle.

    I believe the wonder of it all is that we Gentiles are now included, being in the Body of Christ, and with Him always. This was not so until after Damascus Road. Christian faith, ituttut Galatians 1:11-12
     
  5. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Hi OldReg. I believe things went in order. It seems earlier in John that John the Baptist knew, as did the disciples that Jesus was the Messiah, plus other “full” blooded Jews. To the Jew first, then work down to the Gentile, with Samaritans in the middle.

    I believe the wonder of it all is that we Gentiles are now included, being in the Body of Christ, and with Him always. This was not so until after Damascus Road. Christian faith, ituttut Galatians 1:11-12
    </font>[/QUOTE]What about Cornelius [Acts 10:1ff]? Was he a "full" bloded Jew? No!

    Also take a look at A Harmony of the Gospels by A. T. Robertson to understand the timing of Jesus Christ's Revelation of Himself to the Samaritans. These were not full bloded Jews but at best were considered to be mongrels by the Jews and lower than Gentiles, yet they were saved by the Grace of Jesus Christ.

    Also you might consider the encounter of Jesus Christ and the Roman centurion [Matthew 8:5-13].

    5. And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him,
    6. And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.
    7. And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.
    8. The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
    9. For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
    10. When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
    11. And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
    12. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    13. And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.
     
  6. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    ===

    ONE: Back to square one: First, you did not answer the question if you believed in the “great commission”.

    TWO: Your 1), and 2) above is in error. I name through faith, and not by faith. This is the difference in John 3:16, and the gospel of Paul.

    THREE: John 3:16 was not brought to enlightenment and knowledge of such a saying until more than thirty years after the death of Paul.

    ====

    Bill says:

    ONE: I happily will answer your question as soon as you answer mine: Name just one thing that Paul calls his Gospel that Jesus did not teach when He was on earth according to John.

    TWO: "By"?? "Through"?? You make an argument from prepositions? As you build a case for a different Gospel on prepositions, please by NT usage of the Greek preposition(s) prove your case that Jo 3:16 differs from Paul's Gospel.

    THREE: "Brought to enlightenment"? Did Jesus historically say Jo 3:16 to Nicodemus when Jesus was on earth or not? If HE did, then that is Jesus' Gospel.
     
  7. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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    Hi OldReg. I believe things went in order. It seems earlier in John that John the Baptist knew, as did the disciples that Jesus was the Messiah, plus other “full” blooded Jews. To the Jew first, then work down to the Gentile, with Samaritans in the middle.

    I believe the wonder of it all is that we Gentiles are now included, being in the Body of Christ, and with Him always. This was not so until after Damascus Road. Christian faith, ituttut Galatians 1:11-12
    </font>[/QUOTE]What about Cornelius [Acts 10:1ff]? Was he a "full" bloded Jew? No!

    But Cornelius did not happen until sometime after Damascus Road. Christ started the ball rolling in telling Paul the Gentile would now be saved, and Paul was commissioned by Christ from heaven to be our (my) heavenly Apostle. Can you deny that? That is what His Word says, and I do believe His Word.

    Peter had to be the very first to preach to a Gentile, and that was so the Pentecostal church would know that a Gentile could be saved just a God revealed to Paul “that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins”. Acts 10:43-44. That is not the “great commission” message to the Jew of the Pentecostal church, but the Christian message of today into the Body of Christ, and not into the earthly kingdom coming, where the Jew will inherit the earth.

    Paul began his ministry by going to where people went to hear about God, and that was in the synagogues on the Sabbath day. These Jews were afraid of Paul for they are the same people Paul was having killed, and put into jail before Damascus Road. Paul is the one who first scattered the saints from Jerusalem. He was a Holy terror to the Pentecostal church. They would have never believed Paul if Peter, and those with him, had not witnessed the first Gentiles receiving the Holy Ghost without repenting and being water baptized for the remission of their sins.

    Also take a look at A Harmony of the Gospels by A. T. Robertson to understand the timing of Jesus Christ's Revelation of Himself to the Samaritans. These were not full bloded Jews but at best were considered to be mongrels by the Jews and lower than Gentiles, yet they were saved by the Grace of Jesus Christ.

    You can quote A. T. Robertson all day long, and it will not change the Word of God. Yes I know the half-breed Samaritans were far down the list, but they still came in order, for to the Jew first (full blood), then half-breed, and then lastly to the Gentile with no blood of the Jew. Those people started off as full-blooded Jews. They went after other gods, then Judah and Benjamin did the exact same thing. That is the reason today God is not talking to any of the twelve tribes as in the past, but speaks to us all through His Word, the Bible. We can either believe God’s Word or that of man. We can either believe the last words on salvation, and those words come to us from Him in heaven through the gospel of Paul.

    Have I added or taken away from anything His Word says? If so, please show me.

    No one while Jesus was on this earth could be in the Body of Christ for He had not shed His blood, but they could come as the Jew and enter into the kingdom that will come. These are all proselytes to the Jewish religion, and they had to do every work that was required of the Jew. That is not how we as Christian’s today are saved.

    Also you might consider the encounter of Jesus Christ and the Roman centurion [Matthew 8:5-13].

    5. And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him,
    6. And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.
    7. And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.
    8. The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
    9. For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
    10. When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
    11. And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
    12. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    13. And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.
    </font>[/QUOTE]The servant was healed. It says nothing of the centurion being saved. We cannot put into scripture what is not there. This is the same as that shown in Matthew 15:22-28. Jesus could not deny himself, for they had faith that He could heal their loved ones, and it was done according to their faith. If we believe they were saved, then we can do so, but we also have to realize, that they would have to become as the Jew to enter into the earthly kingdom of God. God had not yet revealed His “hidden” gospel from the beginning. That had to wait until from heaven Christ revealed it to Paul. Christian faith, ituttut
     
  8. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    First, God revealed in Genesis 3:15 that salvation would be provided for mankind in general.

    Second, if some new Gospel had been revealed to Paul and in turn communicated to Peter why did Peter baptize the Gentile Cornelius?

    Third, you are assuming that Acts is presented in strict chronological order.

    Fourth, reading your posts one would think that Paul made atonement for your sins rather than Jesus Christ! Please take note of the following words of Paul.

    1 Corinthians 3:4, 5
    4. For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
    5. Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?


    1 Corinthians 1:12, 13
    12. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
    13.Is CHRIST DIVIDED? was Paul CRUCIFIED for you? or were ye BAPTIZED in the NAME of PAUL?

    1 Corinthians 1:21- 23
    21. Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
    22. Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
    23. And ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s.


    Fifth, why in the world is Paul talking about baptism? Isn't that supposed to be heretical? What was Peter doing in Corinth, preaching to Gentiles or just to Jews?

    Sixth, as for His Word you apparently pick and choose that which you want to believe.

    Seventh, it appears that contrary to the Word of God, straight from Paul's mouth, you are glorying in Paul.

    Eighth, we are not Paul's we are Jesus Christ's, that is if we have been saved through the ONE AND ONLY GOSPEL, which is THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION [Romans 1:16].
     
  9. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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    ===

    ONE: Back to square one: First, you did not answer the question if you believed in the “great commission”.

    TWO: Your 1), and 2) above is in error. I name through faith, and not by faith. This is the difference in John 3:16, and the gospel of Paul.

    THREE: John 3:16 was not brought to enlightenment and knowledge of such a saying until more than thirty years after the death of Paul.

    ====

    Bill says:

    ONE: I happily will answer your question as soon as you answer mine: Name just one thing that Paul calls his Gospel that Jesus did not teach when He was on earth according to John.

    Your question has been answered, but you do not accept or comprehend. If you do not wish to believe Christ spoke to Paul from heaven and gave Paul his gospel, that is fine. But you do seem to believe John. If so, since John speaks as does Paul, then why not believe John. John does not even come close to presenting the “great commission”. Nowhere does he tell you to be “water baptized” does He? Nowhere does he tell you to “repent” of your sins does He? So what is the problem? John speaks as does Paul. Our sins are no more once we have that One baptism into His death, and that happens when we turn (repent) to Him, and then we are turned again by the Holy Spirit as we are baptized into Christ, then are sealed.

    Since John agrees with Paul, should answer your question for after Pentecost John preached the same message as Peter in Acts 2, and that message of the gospel of the Kingdom, which was “repent and be baptized”. Do you agree that was then the message? Since that was the message then, why doesn’t John preach the same message some 60 odd years later?

    This explains your above, for in John, Jesus was teaching the “Kingdom” message that was promised to His people. This was not for the Gentile as Jesus explains before His crucifixion, for the kingdom of God was at hand. This is not the gospel of Grace that Christ Jesus gave to Paul for the Gentile of coming through faith.

    You cannot find salvation being of through faith before Damascus Road. Since this is true, why do you refuse to believe it. People saved by must endure until the end to enter the “kingdom” of the Jew on earth. Those Once Saved Always Saved come through the blood of Christ into His Body, as we died with Him at the Cross, and that is where our sins where taken care of. We don’t ask today for our sins to be forgiven, for if we believe Him all of our sins are no more, and that is the reason we praise and worship our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God. We have peace of mind that God already sees us as being in Christ Jesus.

    Can those that believe the “great commandment” of repent and be baptized for the remission of their sins” have this assurance? No! For they come by the Promise Of the Blood, and not through it.

    Your question being answered, Once again, do you believe in the “great commission”.

    TWO: "By"?? "Through"?? You make an argument from prepositions? As you build a case for a different Gospel on prepositions, please by NT usage of the Greek preposition(s) prove your case that Jo 3:16 differs from Paul's Gospel.

    Thanks for bringing this up. Since we know a preposition is a Modifier, it then give meaning to the noun Faith. This is the function of prepositions so we may determine and make sense of what we are talking about.

    Two down and one to go.

    THREE: "Brought to enlightenment"? Did Jesus historically say Jo 3:16 to Nicodemus when Jesus was on earth or not? If HE did, then that is Jesus' Gospel.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Look in verse 14 and 15 and we see ”And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15. That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.” This is future. Did anyone understand what Jesus was talking about? They had no idea. The only way one can know and understand these things is by the gospel of Paul who spoke and wrote more than 30 years before John wrote His books. Also be advised that John never claimed any gospel to be his own. Only Paul had the gospel of Jesus Christ from heaven.

    How do we know none understood those things Jesus spoke on earth? [/I]”From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. 22. Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men”,[/I] Matthew 16:21-23

    I have shown you scripture, and you show me things of men. Man’s theories and Theologies won’t cut it. It must be the Word, or it is not of God. Christian faith, ituttut
     
  10. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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    First, God revealed in Genesis 3:15 that salvation would be provided for mankind in general.

    KJV, unless noted otherwise.

    Did anyone have any idea of what God was talking about then? Evidently not. Did God reveal His “secret” here? We cannot understand the Old Testament until the coming of Jesus, after His crucifixion, and then from what He revealed to Paul from heaven. Aren’t we “Monday night quarterbacking” when we say we knew what God knew before Damascus Road? Are we saying God chose Paul to reveal His love for the whole world for nothing, for we all knew before reading Paul what Jesus was talking about? This is exactly what we do when we ignore the gospel of Paul.

    Nobody knew, not even the chosen people of God. It was not for them to know then, and it was not for them to know until after the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. And even after that, after Pentecost, no one knew the whole purpose of God.

    We must believe Christ actually did chose Paul as His only heavenly Apostle to the Gentle, and the Jew, or we must remove Paul’s epistles, and then we can believe as what most of Christendom want to believe, and that is the Pentecostal gospel of and for the Jew first, and then to the Gentile the “great commission” to enter into the kingdom that is promised to His people, that the Gentile will be in servitude forever. Read the Word of God to His people and this is what you will find, i.e. until His people refused their King, and the kingdom that was offered, after His crucifixion.

    But is this what Baptist and some other religions believe? No! They believe Paul (they say) for we are saved by grace through faith, but then turn around and say we believe the gospel of Peter also for we believe in the “great commission”, for that is in the gospel most Baptist churches preach. We are not to believe two different gospels. His gift is no longer a gift when we believe we are to include the gospel to the Jew to enter the “kingdom” John the Baptist preached to those of Judah, and Benjamin, and that kingdom that was at hand. What happened to it? The kingdom was there for the taking, but His people refused it. They turned it down.

    God knew what would happen, so the kingdom gospel was slowly withdrawn, with its program, of which a Gentile would never be required to “repent and be baptized for the remission of their sins”. This is what God is showing us in Peter being sent to Cornelius, of which Peter later says they can also be saved as we Gentiles.

    Second, if some new Gospel had been revealed to Paul and in turn communicated to Peter why did Peter baptize the Gentile Cornelius?

    God allowed “water baptism” to continue as He did both the Pentecostal church, and the other Jews, as long as the Temple stood. These of both Pentecostal church, and the Temple worshippers, were also allowed to continue other rites and ordinances of the covenant for they continued to keep the Sabbath day holy, the Passover, the sacrifices and all the others. God would take these from them, but to we Gentiles, none of this was ever meant for God did not ask we heathen to make a two-way covenant with Him. Even though Gentiles were baptized for some time after Damascus Road, Christ evidently informed Paul water baptism was not necessary for He chose Paul to preach saving grace as pointed out in I Corinthians 1:17-18, ”For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18. For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.”

    We see that God took away the “great commission” gospel of the “kingdom” when He sent Peter to that first Gentile that Peter or any of the Apostles had ever preached to. Those years between Pentecost and Damascus Road, no Gentile was ever preached to or at with the “great commission” gospel of the “kingdom of God”. God would not allow Peter to require the Gentile to “repent and be water baptized for the remission of sins”, as that is reserved only for God’s own nation to enter into the “kingdom” that He promised them under covenant. Of course any Gentile wishing to come as a proselyte could still do so.

    Notice God would not let Peter evoke the command of the “great commission” in connection with the Gentile. The message Peter was allowed to preach would become the gospel of Paul, whom Christ had already given to Paul. That message is what God put into Peter’s mouth in verse 43, ”that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins”. Then skipping to chapter 11, verses 15 through 18 it is now the Holy Spirit that does the baptizing and no longer done by the hands of man as in the “great commission”. You will find nowhere forward in scripture the command of “repent and be baptized for the remission of sins”.

    Of course we Baptist don’t believe this is necessary, so why in the world do we continue to say we do believe in the “great commission”. You will find talking with many in any Baptist church, they have no idea that Mark 16 includes information on the “great commission”. I can understand these “babes” not knowing but how can the preachers, whether formally schooled or not, continue without understanding what they are preaching?

    Third, you are assuming that Acts is presented in strict chronological order.

    No assuming. The facts are there. Opens shortly before Pentecost, then Pentecost, then rejection of the Holy Ghost by Gods nation, on to Damascus Road and a heavenly Apostle commissioned to go to the Gentile, as well as the Jew; then the birth of the Christian church, the fading of the dieing “great commission” church of the circumcised, ending with spreading of the “grace commission” now sent and carried throughout the world by Gentiles’ for we must understand Paul’s message of salvation was sent to we heathen, and we will listen to it.

    Fourth, reading your posts one would think that Paul made atonement for your sins rather than Jesus Christ! Please take note of the following words of Paul.

    1 Corinthians 3:4, 5
    4. For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
    5. Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?


    Perhaps you have Epistles written by Apollos, or others. I do not. All I have is what Christ Jesus said He revealed to Paul. That is whom I believe, Christ Jesus from Heaven. The Jew believed Moses’ Law for God gave it to him. Jesus said He believed in Moses’ Law for He says so, and He gave it to Moses. I say no different for Christ Jesus gave Paul His gospel just as He gave Moses the Law. So the Jew believed Moses, and I believe Paul. How can you fault that, for I do not say I am of Billy Graham, Rick Warren, W. A. Criswell, Spurgeon, Clifford, Martin Luther King, Dobson, Falwell, or any other man.

    What do you make of Romans 11:13(ISV), “I am speaking to you Gentiles. Because I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I am glorifying my ministry.” I know that what Paul speaks is from Christ in heaven for in Galatians 1:11-12 Paul tells us his gospel is not from man but revealed to Him by Jesus Christ. I believe the gospel of Paul. Who’s gospel do you believe?

    Acts 9:15(ISV), ”But the Lord said to him, Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the descendants of Israel.” I choose to listen to whom Christ chose. To whom do you listen?

    To get serious, perhaps we should bring in Peter for those that take the gospel of Paul lightly. II Peter 3:15-16(ISV), ”And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given to him, wrote unto you; 16 He speaks about this subject in all his letters. Some things in them are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort to their own destruction, as they do the rest of the Scriptures.” Doesn’t Peter understand Paul speaks to the Jew and also to the Gentile. Peter advised His Jewish readers they had better pay attention to Paul. Can we Gentiles do less when He speaks to us?

    1 Corinthians 1:12, 13
    12. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
    13.Is CHRIST DIVIDED? was Paul CRUCIFIED for you? or were ye BAPTIZED in the NAME of PAUL?


    Again, the Holy Spirit saw not fit to leave us any Holy Words from Apollos, a follower of Paul’s gospel. We do have Peter’s, but they are addressed to those with the blood of Abraham. Peter, James, and the rest made pact (by hand)with Paul and Barnabas, they (the Pentecostal church) would only go to the circumcision, which they did, and Peter wrote his 2 Epistle’s to them. The Apostle John is the only one to also write and preach to a Gentile for all of His writings are written close to 30 years after the Temple was destroyed in A.D. 70. Those of Israel, Judah and Benjamin were all cut-off.

    1 Corinthians 1:21- 23
    21. Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
    22. Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
    23. And ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s.


    Sure sounds like what Christ Jesus revealed to Paul for us to believe. If we don’t believe the Gospel of Paul, who are we Gentile’s to believe? Who made clear to you the Body of Christ? Who made clear to you, and first told you about the Rapture? Who made clear to you, and first told you of the One spiritual circumcision and baptism without hands? Who told you about God reconciling the world unto himself. Who made clear to you that today we come through faith? The list goes on. I believe we Gentiles have heavenly appointed Apostle to we Gentile’s. If we believe any other thing other than what God’s gives us, can we say we believe Christ as He sits on the right hand of His Father?

    Fifth, why in the world is Paul talking about baptism? Isn't that supposed to be heretical? What was Peter doing in Corinth, preaching to Gentiles or just to Jews?

    Peter preached to One Gentile, and there were others with Cornelius, and that was the only Gentile’s Peter ever preached to. Peter tells Cornelius that and afterwards shakes hands with Paul and Barnabas agreeing to go only to the circumcised. God sent Peter on that one special mission to that first Gentile to be preached to in order to confirm to Peter and the Pentecostal church how the Gentile will be saved, and to accept Paul as the Apostle to the Gentile, and they of the Pentecostal church were not to preach to the heathen. I believe you will find this so as you search the scriptures.

    Sixth, as for His Word you apparently pick and choose that which you want to believe.

    Of course I do – Don’t you? For my salvation I believe Christ from heaven, so I chose Him. I believe the gospel of Paul for Christ chose Paul, therefore I believe the gospel of Paul for my salvation, as it came from Christ in heaven. I believe every part of the Bible, but I understand the dispensation’s of God, or at least what does, and does not apply to me. God didn’t save me as He did Abel, Abraham, Moses, David, the Prophets, Judges, or any of the others. Where do we know for sure about this. Hebrews 11 plainly tells us we are in a different dispensation of God.

    Do you see any of those in Christ Jesus as we are. They can’t be for they are by faith, and we are throughfaith, so everything is not the same as from the beginning……..If we believe Christ Jesus and what He revealed to Paul.

    Seventh, it appears that contrary to the Word of God, straight from Paul's mouth, you are glorying in Paul.

    It just seems that way, for Paul gives me the information telling me "But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile"in Romans 2:10. Of course Christ Jesus has the kingdom, the power, and the glory for ever.

    Jesus leaves no doubt that He did not come the first time for we heathen Gentiles. But Christ Jesus speaks differently from heaven, does He not? I find revelation of Christ in Paul’s words, which tells us (me) we didn’t have anybody to preach to us, until Paul, viz. Galatians 1:16-17, ”To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: 17. Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.” I don’t glory in Paul, I just happen to believe Christ Jesus told him, Paul, He was my Apostle. Apollos, left me nothing, nor did Barnabas, or any of the others that were given authority to preach to we Gentiles.

    Eighth, we are not Paul's we are Jesus Christ's, that is if we have been saved through the ONE AND ONLY GOSPEL, which is THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION [Romans 1:16].
    </font>[/QUOTE]Preach it Brother. Believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and we will be saved, not believing any other gospel, and that includes the “great commission”. Christian faith, ituttut Galatians 1:11-12.
     
  11. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    There is only one Gospel, there has always been only one Gospel, there will always be only one Gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Apostle Paul tells us:

    For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek..

    Now perhaps you are ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ but I am not and as Paul told the Galatians:

    Galatians 1:6-8
    6. I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
    7. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
    8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
    9. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


    Some other Scripture for your consideration:

    Mr 1:1* The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
    Ro 1:1* Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
    Ro 15:19* Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
    Ro 15:29* And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fulness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ.
    1Co 9:12* If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
    1Co 9:18* What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
    2Co 2:12* Furthermore, when I came to Troas to preach Christ’s gospel, and a door was opened unto me of the Lord,
    2Co 4:4* In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
    2Co 9:13* Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men;
    2Co 10:14* For we stretch not ourselves beyond our measure, as though we reached not unto you: for we are come as far as to you also in preaching the gospel of Christ:
    Php 1:27* Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
    1Th 3:2* And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:
    2Th 1:8* In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: :D [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  12. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    IT: I thankyou for your opinion. I remain convinced my own is better. I have some things to attend to so will be off BB a while.

    Bill
     
  13. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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    Hello Jim. Got my wife home from the hospital and got time to look at this subject. Thought I included you in my post to UZThD on June 10, concerning John 3:16. If you didn’t read that post, the info. is in that post to UZThD, for he addressed the same issue. Christian faith, ituttut.
     
  14. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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    There is only one Gospel, there has always been only one Gospel, there will always be only one Gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Apostle Paul tells us:

    For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek..

    So then you and I agree, for Paul’s gospel was revealed to him by Christ Jesus, and Christ told Paul He was sending Paul to the Gentiles. Please notice the order of the words. The words of Christ from heaven are Gentiles, Kings, and the children of Israel. Before Damascus Road the order was Jew, then Gentile.

    We know it is always to the Jew first and then the Gentile, but the order of words that Christ uses is of importance. Before the Jew was to go first to the Jew with the “kingdom gospel” of John the Baptist, and then the Gentile would be preached to, but only After His people accepted Messiah. We know this didn’t happen.

    Christ then chose Saul/Paul to go to the Jew first, which he did, and then to the Gentile just as it must always be done. But this time it will not be the Jew that will carry the Gospel of the Grace of God, Through faith, but the Gentile for that is our gospel according to Christ Jesus from heaven. If we believe Christ Jesus gave Paul his revelation, then we must believe it is Paul’s gospel.

    And who would not accept Paul’s gospel to the Gentile and to the Jew? The Jew did not want to preach to the Gentile, nor did they believe the gospel of Paul (which is the gospel of Christ Jesus from heaven) as we see in Acts 13:46 -- 18:6, and 28:28. Three times and you are out. We today are to spread the “grace commission” of Christ from heaven, and not the “great commission” of the kingdom on this earth.

    Now perhaps you are ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ but I am not and as Paul told the Galatians:

    Galatians 1:6-8
    6. I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
    7. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
    8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
    9. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


    But don’t you see, you are agreeing with every thing I have presented, and that is the dispensational gospel that Christ Jesus gave to Paul from heaven. Ephesians 3:1-6, ”For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2. If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3. How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4. Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5. Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;6. That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel”.

    After reading this why do we say, “Jesus Christ we knew this BEFORE you revealed it to Paul.” “This is nothing new for the gospel has always been the same from the beginning”. This is not what I am prepared to say to my Savior, Jesus Christ.

    Paul is preaching a new gospel to the Gentile, and Peter says Now those of the circumcision can be saved like we Gentiles, for those Jews that wish to be saved as we Gentile’s can Now do so, for God was in the process of doing away with that Old Pentecostal gospel of “repent and be baptized for the remission of sins”.

    Some other Scripture for your consideration:

    Mr 1:1* The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
    Ro 1:1* Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
    Ro 15:19* Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
    Ro 15:29* And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fulness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ.
    1Co 9:12* If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
    1Co 9:18* What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
    2Co 2:12* Furthermore, when I came to Troas to preach Christ’s gospel, and a door was opened unto me of the Lord,
    2Co 4:4* In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
    2Co 9:13* Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men;
    2Co 10:14* For we stretch not ourselves beyond our measure, as though we reached not unto you: for we are come as far as to you also in preaching the gospel of Christ:
    Php 1:27* Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
    1Th 3:2* And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:
    2Th 1:8* In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: :D [​IMG] [​IMG]
    </font>[/QUOTE]We can say Amen together, for Paul did preach to both the Jew and the Gentile, and He preached the gospel given from heaven by our Lord Jesus Christ , just as Christ told him to.

    There for awhile, I thought you might not believe the gospel of Paul, that Christ revealed to him. Christian faith, ituttut Galatians 1:11-12.
     
  15. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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    And thank you. Know what you mean. Not to be contentious, but I like the word belief over the word opinion.

    It is always enjoyable having conversation with people that know what they believe. This occasion is worthwhile, for we hone our preaching and teaching abilities, digging deeper and finding truths most often overlooked.

    One thing I find has not changed for today and that is “believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and we will be saved”. After that we “work out our own salvation”, which I must admit I had to change a number of things I had been taught, for I found they did not agree with His Word. Christian faith, ituttut
     
  16. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Don't the Mormons talk about "another Gospel"?
     
  17. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    I believe the Mormon's call it 'ANOTHER Gospel' and claim it's when Jesus went to the American Indians.... :rolleyes:
     
  18. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    And we call the Mormons heretics for preaching another gospel.

    Since there is only one Gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, what are we to call people who preach a pauline gospel?
     
  19. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    The word "gospel" in the koine Greek was euaggelion which means "good message". The word itself is a transliteration of the Old English phrase gōdspel(gōd=good, spel=news). Paul was referring to the proclamation of the redemption preached by Jesus and the Apostles, which is the central content of Christian revelation. Any gospel claims that contradicted that were "other gospels".

    The books we know as the Gospels in Scriptural Canon are not the only gospels to exist. Many non-canonical gospels survive to this day. Many others were unfortunately destroyed and erased from history by the early church. Paul was not talking about a specific book or writing, since the four Gospels had not even been written or circulated yet, let alone complied into a scriptural canon.
     
  20. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    You know what gets me is the calling of it as Paul’s Gospel because it is the Gospel of the glory of God-God’s Gospel. The way I see it some are trying to separate the messages of the “Good News” and then turn that into a separation of the Glory of God in order to separate the Body of Christ.

    God’s Gospel was progressively and through a mysteriously hidden wisdom revealed to US through the Spirit. The GLORY of God was prepared for them that love Him and ordained before the world unto OUR glory. It is also OUR glory because WE are in Christ, given as a gift by the Holy Spirit, the righteousness of His GLORY from the very beginning, the salvation that came through Christ. This is God’s GOSPEL, not PAULS.

    Paul was teaching how God’s GOSPEL should be PREACHED, which, YES, that was REVEALED to Paul, the MYSTERY of GOD”S GOSPEL was REVEALED to PAUL in HOW to PREACH it, but why do you think Paul was saying, “Was Christ divided, were YOU baptized in the name of PAUL?” (Because, Paul was teaching that it wasn’t his Gospel; from the beginning God had a plan to reveal His GLORY through a MYSTERY.)

    To use this Pauline dispensational teaching to claim more than one Body of Christ is building a foundation on sand. The foundation of the GLORY of God, GOD’S GOSPEL, is built upon the Rock, Christ, from the beginning. There is nothing new under the sun. So what! If it wasn’t fully revealed before, that proves nothing towards claiming who will be in the Body of Christ.
     
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