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Featured Different interpretations based on different interpretations.... lol

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by TheOldRanger, Dec 21, 2023.

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  1. TheOldRanger

    TheOldRanger New Member

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    I've sat in on different seminars over time, and it is amazing to me how many interpretations are based on different interpretations.... what I mean is, people interpret based on what Bible they read, what church they go to, et al. I was a bit amused sitting in on a panel of 5 pastors (1 Methodist, 1 Church of Christ, 1 Southern
    Baptist, 1 graduate of the Southwestern Baptist Seminary in FW, and a graduate of the Dallas Theological Seminary. All made a brief statement (about 10 minutes each) of their belief and then a discussion was started which was suppose to last about an hour. After 2 1/2 hours, I finally left .... my conclusion was that everyone sees it differently. There were some points of agreement (not many), but the point of views ranged quite widely.

    Another seminar a couple of years later, with 4 pastors (all Baptist preachers) and they didn't agree either.

    The point is: man is going to interpret how they see it. Remember that a lot of people didn't agree with Jesus even when He was on earth the first time. .
     
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  2. Cathode

    Cathode Well-Known Member

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    This is the product of the sola scriptura heresy of Martin Luther, it is the perfect deception. Luther basically told people to interpret the scripture how they thought, and reject the ancient traditional interpretation of Scripture. He was alarmed to quickly discover that people interpreted every wind of doctrine.

    This was Satan’s work to destroy the truth of scripture and reduce to a matter of each man’s opinion.

    Catholics have never been allowed to privately interpret scripture, we follow and maintain the ancient Apostles interpretation of scripture over 2000 years.
     
  3. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ...sad, very sad...
     
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  4. Cathode

    Cathode Well-Known Member

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    It’s sadder still to have thousands of conflicting interpretations of scripture and no one having the truth of Scripture. Truth nullified, Opinion of Pastor glorified.

    See how this nullifies the scripture? Each man claims he follows the Scripture alone, yet he interprets just the opposite doctrine of another man who claims he follows Scripture alone.

    This lethal diabolical snare introduced by Luther is invisible to most protestants. People settle and rationalise the death of truth and sound ancient doctrine being hated. Even few Lutherans follow all of Luther’s interpretations of scripture today, let alone the thousands of other “ bible alone “ denominations.

    All Catholics have done is maintain down the ages the same singular interpretation of scripture that the Apostles taught.

    Luther introduced private interpretation and rejected truth and thousands of conflicting doctrines were interpreted from scripture there after by every man and his dog. The real traditions of men.

    This was the start of the Great falling away, exchanging truth for the lie. Because as Peter points out scripture can be misinterpreted to people’s destruction.
    No private interpreter thinks his interpretation of Scripture is wrong though, he finds out at Judgement.

    Private interpretation is more dangerous than mountain climbing on an ice face without safety lines, in the middle of a blizzard. With eternal consequences.
     
  5. Cathode

    Cathode Well-Known Member

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    I don’t say “ Catholics have never been allowed to privately interpret scripture“ with a heavy heart. I say it with joyous relief.

    The Apostles handed down the true interpretation and doctrines of scripture, not just the scripture itself.

    All that the private interpreters have done is sow confusion and division in the last 500 years.
     
  6. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Eternal consequences? For reading the Bible? God forbid.

    "The Bible is a plain book. It is intelligible by the people. And they have the right, and are bound to read and interpret it for themselves; so that their faith may rest on the testimony of the Scriptures, and not on that of the Church. Such is the doctrine of Protestants on this subject."
    Perspicuity of the Scriptures. The Right of Private Judgment | Monergism

    I'm assuming your faith rests upon what one man, the Pope, tells you?
     
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  7. Cathode

    Cathode Well-Known Member

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    “as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.”

    Catholics can read the scriptures, they can not however privately interpret them, or follow any of the thousands of new progressive interpretations of the last 500 years.

    You are American, so I’ll explain it like this.

    You have a written Constitution and founding fathers, and successors of these founding fathers.

    Today there those that interpret your Constitution progressively and treat it as changeable to the times. And there are those that interpret it as it was intended to be interpreted by the founders, called Originalists. Interpreting the original understanding and intent of the founders.
    It is originalists that are maintaining your second amendment right to bear arms for instance, and the progressive interpreters wanting to take it away.

    Catholics are Bible Originalists, they not only preserved the scriptures from the Apostles and determined the Canon itself, but also maintain the Originalist interpretation of scripture from the Apostles. The Apostles original interpretation and understanding of Scripture.

    If the new progressive interpreters of your Constitution win, you lose the right to bare arms, freedom of speech, that founding fathers intended you to have.

    If the new progressive interpreters of the Bible win, you lose the Holy Eucharist and Confession that the Apostolic founders intended you to have.

    Your Constitution can be nullified by mis interpretation, the same way private interpreters nullify the Bible by misinterpretations that are not what the Apostles originally interpret those scriptures mean.

    Catholics maintain the originalist interpretation of scripture the Apostles handed down. This is called Apostolic Tradition.

    Protestants and all Bible aloners are the progressives that interpret what they want from scripture, not knowing what the ancient founders interpretation of scripture is.
    They all interpret thousands of new conflicting doctrines from the same bible, so the truth is obscured and the word nullified for countless millions.
    If the bible can mean anything, then it means nothing.

    The bible is progressively meaning less and less to the world as a result.
     
    #7 Cathode, Dec 29, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2023
  8. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    So tell me what is hard so understand about, it is ok to bless same s;x unions. Does your bible not condemn s;x between people of the same gender?

    As for understanding what the scriptures say, do you not feel qualified to understand the text of the bible? Do you not think that the average person could read and understand it?

    The RCC teaches a number of things that we do not find in scripture, Mary worship, transubstantiation, prugatory, Papal infallibility and I am sure there are more. These are all things that have been brought into your RCC my men over time. I am sorry but if your pope can not get a basis sin found in the bible correct why should I or anyone trust him or the RCC to tell us what the bible says?
     
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  9. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    162 I rejoice at thy word, as one that findeth great spoil. Ps 119
     
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  10. taisto

    taisto Well-Known Member

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    Does this mean you fully ascribe to the interpretations of the rabbi's in the mishnah? This would be the ancient traditions. By that argument we could say it was Satan's work to twist the truth of scripture using the Church at Rome.

    See how that appeal to only tradition works? Your tradition isn't the oldest one.
     
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  11. Cathode

    Cathode Well-Known Member

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    Have you really asked yourself why, “ Bible Alone “ denominations interpret completely opposing doctrines from the same scripture?

    All Catholic belief is supported by Scripture and Tradition.

    Private interpreters can interpret the Bible to teach any doctrine they like, that’s why they find the ancient Apostolic interpretations alien.
     
  12. Cathode

    Cathode Well-Known Member

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    The Apostles were inspired by The Holy Spirit, they taught the true meaning of scripture and it is handed on in Truth in Apostolic Tradition.

    What Protestant private interpreters did was reject the ancient singular Apostolic interpretation of scripture and came up with many new conflicting interpretations and traditions of men.

    Peter warns people that Paul’s words are hard to understand and misunderstanding them can bring about destruction.
    Protestantism does exactly that, it’s with Paul’s writings that they mostly have their misunderstandings and conflicting interpretations and doctrines.

    Protestants and Baptist’s don’t just reject the ancient Catholic and Apostolic interpretations of scripture, they reject each other’s new interpretations of scripture.

    Private interpreters nullify the word of God and bring destruction and division.

    Private interpretation is the old snare of Satan that brought about the fall of man.

    “Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

    Private interpreters of scripture can not see the diabolical and crafty invisible snare laid out before them. Many are in the snare tight.

    When people follow wrong interpretations of scripture, they aren’t following scripture, yet they think they are following scripture.

    It’s at the point of interpretation that the truth of Scripture is snatched away from them, and they can not see it.
     
  13. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Well first of I do not believe in a denomination for by salvation, I trust in Christ Jesus. So as for them having different views, so what? Now I have to ask since you seem to have a problem with people trusting in the "Bible Alone" what else should we trust? Man or the RCC? We have seen how the RCC has added a number of things to scripture and you do not seem to have a problem with that. So you admit that it is not just the word of God trust but also your RCC traditions that are not biblical.

    I have to ask where do you where do you find biblical support for Mary worship, transubstantiation, prugatory, Papal infallibility?

    I have to ask you under what authority did the RCC change the Commandments of God?

    The RCC left out the second one:
    Exo 20:4 (II.) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

    And then so as to have ten commandments they split the tenth one.
    Exo 20:17 (X.) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. EW Bullinger Companion Bible


    9. THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR'S WIFE.

    COMMANDS: purity in thought.

    FORBIDS: wilful impure thought and desires.

    10. THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR'S GOODS.

    COMMANDS: respect for the rights of others.

    FORBIDS: the desire to take, to keep, or damage the property of others.

    UPLOADED BY MICHAEL G HAINS SYSOP CATHOLICS' RESOURCE NETWORK COMPUSERVE ID 76711,1340

    This is the Hebrew bible so we can see what the proper text is, so I am just curious as to what else the RCC chose to alter:

    Exodus Chapter 20 שְׁמוֹת
    א וַיְדַבֵּר אֱלֹהִים, אֵת כָּל-הַדְּבָרִים הָאֵלֶּה לֵאמֹר. {ס}

    1 And God spoke all these words, saying: {S}

    ב אָנֹכִי יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ, אֲשֶׁר הוֹצֵאתִיךָ מֵאֶרֶץ מִצְרַיִם מִבֵּית עֲבָדִים: לֹא-יִהְיֶה לְךָ אֱלֹהִים אֲחֵרִים, עַל-פָּנָי.

    2 I am the LORD thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.

    ג לֹא-תַעֲשֶׂה לְךָ פֶסֶל, וְכָל-תְּמוּנָה, אֲשֶׁר בַּשָּׁמַיִם מִמַּעַל, וַאֲשֶׁר בָּאָרֶץ מִתָּחַת--וַאֲשֶׁר בַּמַּיִם, מִתַּחַת לָאָרֶץ.

    3 Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any manner of likeness, of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;

    ד לֹא-תִשְׁתַּחֲוֶה לָהֶם, וְלֹא תָעָבְדֵם: כִּי אָנֹכִי יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ, אֵל קַנָּא--פֹּקֵד עֲוֺן אָבֹת עַל-בָּנִים עַל-שִׁלֵּשִׁים וְעַל-רִבֵּעִים, לְשֹׂנְאָי.

    4 thou shalt not bow down unto them, nor serve them; for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me;

    ה וְעֹשֶׂה חֶסֶד, לַאֲלָפִים--לְאֹהֲבַי, וּלְשֹׁמְרֵי מִצְוֺתָי. {ס}

    5 and showing mercy unto the thousandth generation of them that love Me and keep My commandments. {S}

    ו לֹא תִשָּׂא אֶת-שֵׁם-יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ, לַשָּׁוְא: כִּי לֹא יְנַקֶּה יְהוָה, אֵת אֲשֶׁר-יִשָּׂא אֶת-שְׁמוֹ לַשָּׁוְא. {פ}

    6 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh His name in vain. {P}

    ז זָכוֹר אֶת-יוֹם הַשַּׁבָּת, לְקַדְּשׁוֹ.

    7 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

    ח שֵׁשֶׁת יָמִים תַּעֲבֹד, וְעָשִׂיתָ כָּל-מְלַאכְתֶּךָ.

    8 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work;

    ט וְיוֹם, הַשְּׁבִיעִי--שַׁבָּת, לַיהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ: לֹא-תַעֲשֶׂה כָל-מְלָאכָה אַתָּה וּבִנְךָ וּבִתֶּךָ, עַבְדְּךָ וַאֲמָתְךָ וּבְהֶמְתֶּךָ, וְגֵרְךָ, אֲשֶׁר בִּשְׁעָרֶיךָ.

    9 but the seventh day is a sabbath unto the LORD thy God, in it thou shalt not do any manner of work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy man-servant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates;

    י כִּי שֵׁשֶׁת-יָמִים עָשָׂה יְהוָה אֶת-הַשָּׁמַיִם וְאֶת-הָאָרֶץ, אֶת-הַיָּם וְאֶת-כָּל-אֲשֶׁר-בָּם, וַיָּנַח, בַּיּוֹם הַשְּׁבִיעִי; עַל-כֵּן, בֵּרַךְ יְהוָה אֶת-יוֹם הַשַּׁבָּת--וַיְקַדְּשֵׁהוּ. {ס}

    10 for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested on the seventh day; wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. {S}

    יא כַּבֵּד אֶת-אָבִיךָ, וְאֶת-אִמֶּךָ--לְמַעַן, יַאֲרִכוּן יָמֶיךָ, עַל הָאֲדָמָה, אֲשֶׁר-יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ נֹתֵן לָךְ. {ס}

    11 Honour thy father and thy mother, that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. {S}

    יב לֹא תִרְצָח, {ס} לֹא תִנְאָף; {ס} לֹא תִגְנֹב, {ס} לֹא-תַעֲנֶה בְרֵעֲךָ עֵד שָׁקֶר. {ס}

    12 Thou shalt not murder. {S} Thou shalt not commit adultery. {S} Thou shalt not steal. {S} Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. {S}

    יג לֹא תַחְמֹד, בֵּית רֵעֶךָ; {ס} לֹא-תַחְמֹד אֵשֶׁת רֵעֶךָ, וְעַבְדּוֹ וַאֲמָתוֹ וְשׁוֹרוֹ וַחֲמֹרוֹ, וְכֹל, אֲשֶׁר לְרֵעֶךָ. {פ}

    13 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house; {S} thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his man-servant, nor his maid-servant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. {P}
     
  14. Cathode

    Cathode Well-Known Member

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    I can’t talk about Catholic beliefs in detail, haven’t been allowed for 3 months until the new year turns over January 1st 2024.
    If you don’t mind waiting a bit mate.
     
  15. taisto

    taisto Well-Known Member

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    The problem with your view is that the apostalic writings are all contained in the Bible. Therefore, any writings or interpretation, post apostolic, are subject to being wrong. We can read, in Galatians and Philippians that people were taking the apostolic message and twisting it. Therefore, you should at least be able to acknowledge the possibility that the Church at Rome has added errors to its catechism by traditions not established by the apostles themselves. An example would be the Roman Church teaching of Mary being sinless. There is no teaching by the apostles that ever teaches such a thing, yet the Roman Church has added it where the apostles say nothing.

    Thus, I agree that we should go back to the apostolic teachings only and not add anything else to the church.
     
  16. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Will await your response.
     
  17. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    And have still done far better than the gross extrabiblical errors of Catholicism.
     
  18. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps a little history would be useful….

    When Eastern Orthodox priests fled to the west from Muslim persecution they brought the original Greek manuscripts with them.

    Catholic Priests, like Martin Luther, read the original Greek manuscripts and noticed many corruptions had crept into the Church that was using Jerome’s vulgate (Latin translation 400 AD or so). First among these, for Luther I think, was salvation was by grace alone by faith in Christ alone. He was also adamantly opposed to the Catholic doctrine of purchasing indulgences.

    They began the Sola Scriptura mantra to counter the errors. The RCC held a counter movement to the reformation and it was there that RCC leaders developed their doctrine of tradition trumps scripture, Pope is infallible, salvation is by faith and works. They also recognized several apocrypha books not recognized before as scripture because they supported RCC doctrines like purgatory.

    So, there is no “ancient singular Apostolic interpretation” held by the RCC. That is utter nonsense.

    We have scripture (The Very Words of God) and the commands to study and know it, be prepared to defend it, support and discipline one another based on it, and let God’s Word, and only God’s word guide us.

    If my understanding of God’s Word falls short, I have God Holy Spirit indwelling to correct me. I certainly do not need a Church’s traditions that obviously run contrary to His word to advise me to just trust the Church, it alone has the truth, no need to think for yourself.

    Concerning the OP, there are no details given in either example concerning what these folks were actually discussing. It is just, “Oh look, some preachers got together to discuss doctrine and couldn’t agree”.

    That would have motivated me to take the deep dive into the subject, learn what had been said about by scholars throughout history and through thoughtful prayer, make up my own mind.”

    But hey, I’m from America. We are just wired a little different over here.

    peace to you
     
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  19. Oseas3

    Oseas3 Member

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    The Antichrist was born and rose up from the own Church. Yes, the birthplace, or the cradle of Antichrist, was the own Church, unfortunately, see how.
    The Antichrist was born and rose up from the own Church-See how | Pure Bible Forum (and see www.sinaiticus.net )
     
  20. Cathode

    Cathode Well-Known Member

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    Protestantism tries to recreate the Church from the text, but the Church was not founded on the text, it was founded on Peter by Jesus Himself.

    With all these human founders in Protestantism, they are founded on fallible interpretive opinions of scripture, generating conflicting doctrines and denominations from so many interpretations.

    Churches that merely teach opinions of scripture can be taken or left as one liked. One could be as changeable and faithless as he liked to any one of them, since they have all long forsaken the idea of objective Truth in interpretation. Church hopping, and buffet selecting your own pet doctrines and interpretations is to be expected in that mess. From birth people are taught that this is normal. That opinions of scripture are just as good as the Truth of Scripture.

    However the Infallibly guided Church mentioned in scripture, can not be discarded, people ignore it at their peril.
    It is not merely expressing an opinion, it is interpreting the Truth of Scripture.

    Private interpretation, has been the substitute for the Truth, and God only knows how many have been lost because of it.

    When a man privately interprets scripture, he takes his immortal soul in his hands. When he interprets this and that wrongly here and there, more and more of his soul pours through his fingers.

    Scripture can only be twisted to one’s destruction if you privately interpret it, or follow another man’s private interpretation.

    Protestants do not have the reverential fear of the Word that they should have. Misinterpretation of it will destroy you.

    You can not interpret scripture how you feel like, and think it’s without severe consequences.
    Only those who truly love the truth will be saved. Those who prefer opinion over truth are not worthy of the truth. Any deviation from the truth, is the lie.

    The Truth does not agree to disagree.
     
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