1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Disagreements on God.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by 37818, Apr 3, 2021.

  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    12,305
    Likes Received:
    961
    Faith:
    Baptist
    There are a number of issues. Which makes this complicated.
    The simple answers seem to be agreed on.
    There is God.
    There are three distinct Persons who are identifed to be fully and equally God.
    The name of this explanation is "the Trinity."
    There is the Son of God.

    Some of the problems:
    On the nature of God there are disagreements.
    The nature of the Sonship is not agreed on by all Trinitarians.
    The understanding the the two natures of the Son of God are not agreed on.
    There are disagreements over issues of subordentation of Persons.

    One of the problems in dealing with any of these issues are that side disagreements come into play and complicate the discussion. Accusations which are not true are made.
    The same question is asked over and over even after it was answered.

    There are the philosphical arguments.
    There are the Biblical arguements.
    The Biblical arguements, what the text says and interpertation of meanings get confused.

    What I am asking in this thread to keep each post to one issue at a time.
    Complex questions are more than one issue.
    And an answer to one issue is not necessarily a denial of another issue.

    For a starter, Son of God, God is not His Son. So in that sense the Son is not God.
    John 5:18, ". . . said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God."
    So being equal with God is not the same as being God. See the problem here.
    In the Trinity explanation the Son of God is God too in being equal.
    So the Son here can be understood to be both not God and God too. God is not His Son.

    Try to keep this simple.
     
    #1 37818, Apr 3, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
  2. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    9,732
    Likes Received:
    404
    Faith:
    Baptist
    so how comes you completely ignore the Holy Spirit, Who is 100% Almighty God, and coequal, coessential and coeternal to both the Father and Jesus Christ? What "Trinity" do you have?
     
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    12,305
    Likes Received:
    961
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Romans 8:9, ". . . the Spirit of God . . . the Spirit of Christ . . . ." Romans 8:16, ". . . Spirit Himself . . . ." John 4:24, ". . . God is a Spirit . . . ."
     
  4. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    9,732
    Likes Received:
    404
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So you don't believe that the Holy Spirit is a distinct Person from the Father and Jesus?
     
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    12,305
    Likes Received:
    961
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Do you deny that the three distinct Persons are the One and the same Spirit being God?
     
  6. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    9,732
    Likes Received:
    404
    Faith:
    Baptist
    you are trying to show from John 4:24, that it refers to the "spiritual Godhead". It does not. The "God" in this verse, contextually, is God the Father, and not Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit, or both. Yes, the Godhead is indeed "spiritual" but this does not mean that the Persons are somehow fused together, and their distinction becomes blurred. The Godhead is One, however, there are Three, distinct Persons, The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. They have been "distinct", from all eternity.
     
  7. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    10,806
    Likes Received:
    1,291
    Faith:
    Baptist
    OK, there is no ”sense” in which the Son is not God.

    You can argue the Son is not the Father, being a distinct person, but He is always God in every sense.

    Peace to you
     
    #7 canadyjd, Apr 3, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
  8. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    10,806
    Likes Received:
    1,291
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Additionally, almost all heresies concerning our understanding of God are centered on the person and work of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    This is why your repeated claim that Jesus is not God or that Jesus is someone other than God sends flaming red flags, loud explosions, trumpets sounding warnings that your theology leans toward the heresy of Jehovah Witnesses.

    Add to that your word games, unwillingness to accept 2000 years of sound explanation of scripture or refusing to plainly answer that same question over and over doesn’t help your position.

    Are you a Jehovah Witness? Yes or no would be a plain answer.

    peace to you
     
    #8 canadyjd, Apr 3, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
  9. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    3,154
    Likes Received:
    319
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Son is God, Always;

    and The Son can not usurp and attain to THE OFFICE of God the Father. God the Son Remains Co-Equal with God the Father, by NATURE.
     
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    12,305
    Likes Received:
    961
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well you are in error. Jesus taught God is a Spirit. So unless Jesus Himself is also that Spirit He is not God.
     
  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    9,732
    Likes Received:
    404
    Faith:
    Baptist
    John 4.24 is about God the Father and no one else. Read the context
     
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    12,305
    Likes Received:
    961
    Faith:
    Baptist
    We disagree. While we many agree the Son of God is also fully God, He being the Word was also someone other than God being "with the God." John 1:2. John 1:1-2 explicitly teaches the Word was both "with the God" and "was God."
    It states twice the Word was "with the God" And that Greek phrase is used of others who are not also God.
     
  13. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    10,806
    Likes Received:
    1,291
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I’ve explained that passage already. Being “with God” is literally face to face: a statement of equality within the Godhead.

    Are you a Jehovah Witness? Yes or no would be a direct answer.

    peace to you
     
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    12,305
    Likes Received:
    961
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Then how is Jesus also fully God if does not also have all the attributes of God too? By denying John 4:24 refers to God completely you are denying the full equality of all the Persons who are the one and the SAME God.
     
    #14 37818, Apr 4, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    12,305
    Likes Received:
    961
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So the other 17 times that Greek phrase is use are also a statement of equality within the Godhead?
    No.
    Do you deny God is Jehovah? Yes or No?
     
  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    9,732
    Likes Received:
    404
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Your theology is very much faulty
     
  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    12,305
    Likes Received:
    961
    Faith:
    Baptist
    My theology is Biblical. I affirm that the three distinct Persons, God the Father, the Son of God and the Holy Spirit are the one and the Same LORD God aka Jehovah, Yahweh.
    I also affirm the Son of God is now and forever an immortal man, Hebrews 13:8. Who is as a man is also distinct for God His Father, 1 Corinthians 15:28.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    12,305
    Likes Received:
    961
    Faith:
    Baptist
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    12,305
    Likes Received:
    961
    Faith:
    Baptist
    None of the so called non Biblcial creeds acknowledge Jesus Christ as Creator.
     
  20. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    9,732
    Likes Received:
    404
    Faith:
    Baptist
    let me give it to you as it is, here is the passage from John 4

    21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

    In this passage, the words "God is Spirit" refers to God the Father, and NOT also Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. You quoted this verse (24) to say that it refers to the entire Godhead. Jesus is here speaking as the God-Man, when He had a fleshly body, so He could not have meant that He was "spirit".
     
Loading...