Discerning Truth

They CLAIM to be true children of God - saved and in right relation with him at the time of his appearing. But as Christ points out -- simply "claiming to be accepted by God and claiming to have full confidence" about that day - means absolutely nothing.

Empty claims are pointless and claiming to know what you will do ten years from today is without substance.

RATHER as Christ points out "NOT everyone who SAYS Lord Lord will enter the kingdom but rather the one who DOES the WILL of My Father will enter".

Then Christ contrasts the one who DOES vs the one who simply SAYS but does not follow up with action. The house built upon the rock -- is the one who hears and DOES the will of the Father -- all others are building upon sand EVEN if at some time in the past they were saved and building upon the ROCK.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Clearly they are in error -- all can agree on that in Matt 7.

But starting at the beginning of the text and looking at several examples given in the text I find it hard to limit them to just "teachers of false doctirne" -- many other forms of error (like those who hear the words of christ but do not act on them) are included in the chapter.

I agree with you in your focus on the detail "I never knew you" that Matt 7 is not a good place for making an argument against OSAS since it is unclear that aLL of the various kinds of people in error in Matt 7 (or ANY of them) were ever actually saved.

But I think that whether you are pointing to a LEADER in the church that is in error or a pew-warming member that is "in error" in either case the Matt 7 "details" show that the person is "self deceived" they THINK they are IN and should be ACCEPTED by Christ in that future judgment.

I find the same kind of "self deception" in Rev 3 where the person says "I am rich and increased with spiritual goods and in spiritual need of nothing".

in Christ,

Bob

 

Actually I think we have always agreed on the Matt 7 point that this is a case of the self-deceived who do not "get heaven anyway".:thumbs:

But I agree - it is good to be on the same side of the fence now and then! :jesus:

You would "think" it would happen more often given that we both are supposed to be Arminian.:laugh:

But there are others like HP and Brother Bob and Scarlett O' that I often agree with as well as agreeing with almost everyon on this board on "some subject".

In Christ,

Bob

 

True - it is always much more pleasant to see things the same way.

And as you say -- It is going to be fun to have God say "this is the way it is" and we all respond "so say we all".

But that brings up another interesting point to ponder.

Remember when God said "this is the way it is" to Adam and Eve and Satan came along saying "Did God really say you could not eat of any of the trees of the Garden?" -- just changing the statement of God by a tiny bit -- and giving Eve the "impression" that she was in the position to "correct" a lowly mistaken snake who then went on to "prove" that you don't die if you eat of the tree nor even if you touch the fruit.

Now we have to conclude that God already knew what the snake (the devil) was going to do - yet He left out some tiny details anyway. He knew they had the "impression" that one touch - one bite would cause instant death - and He knew that this was the very "gap" where Satan would expose them. Yet they could still survive the test by simply saying "I trust God anyway - I will go ask Him why this is not turning out the way I thought it would based on His YOU SHALL SURELY DIE statement".

It was really pretty simple to remain faithful if they would choose that path.

in Christ,

Bob

 

I am sure they had nothing to accurately judge the enormity of the problem - however they DID know when someone was "not dying".

And certainly the serpent did not "appear to be dying".

Another thing - though they were "brand new" -- they came from God on day one with --

1. A fully developed language.
2. The ability to analyze animals and name them appropriately
3. The ability to survive on their own in the garden
4. The ability to find food and follow commands.

That is all "pretty amazing for 1 day old"!! Imagine what they were able to do by the 2nd day - the second week... the second month.

Prefect beings, perfectly created by God - able live even OUTSIDE the Garden for almost 1000 years -- my guess is these guys were no dummies.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Am I running out of places to debate Steaver???

What is this world coming too??

Just kiddng - what other topics can we agree on?

in Christ,

Bob

 

It might be suggested to know your authors, rather than just cite someone who does not even exist.

The author of the two above books [which I happen to have at least one but am not sure about the other (Senior moment!), although I have seen and read from it, a bit] is PAUL E. Little!

Ed

 

WHY? These all seem like fun! {rolleyes}

Ed

 

This also reminds me of something I once heard about a preacher's sermon notes.

Written in was this note -

"Weak Point! Pound Pulpit!" :laugh: :laugh:

Ed

 

Very funny - yet the sad truth of that all-too-human trait is seen every day!:thumbsup: :type:

In Christ,

Bob