1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Dispensational Things...pt2

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Iconoclast, Jan 17, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,356
    Likes Received:
    1,776
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Actually, in the notes to Gen. 12:1, Scofield introduces the "Dispensation of Promise." This includes patriarchal rule. His "Dispensation of Law" is the fifth one, not the fourth one.
     
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    What are you talking about?
    Explain the manna....
     
  3. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    880
    Likes Received:
    148
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I guess these men did not receive the same linguistic education that you did?

    “For the true spiritual Israel, and descendants of Judah, Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham (who in uncircumcision was approved of and blessed by God on account of his faith, and called the father of many nations), are we who have been led to God through this crucified Christ.”

    Justin Martyr Dialogue chapter 11

    “But in Christ every blessing [is summed up], and therefore the latter people has snatched away the blessings of the former from the Father, just as Jacob took away the blessings of Esau. For which cause his brother suffered the plots and persecutions of a brother, just as the Church suffers this self-same thing from the Jews.”

    By Saint Irenæus, Aeterna Press pg 306
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    One can be holding to a literal viewpoint regardless understanding prophecy, and still see that God used symbolic language, and others such as metaphors and eschatological expressions without a need to resort to spiritualizing everything!
     
  5. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,356
    Likes Received:
    1,776
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Um, linguistics is not theology. You missed my point.

    And why in the world do you keep going to Catholic sources like Aeterna Press? Of course they will not agree with Baptists, and of course they will give quotes which agree with them, not with Baptists. And any quote they give from the church fathers is suspect, in my book.

    Did you know that lying is actually a part of the Jesuit box of tools to convince people of their doctrine?
     
    #85 John of Japan, Feb 2, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Again....what are you talking about? Give an example of spiritualizing that has been used in this thread I asked you to explain the Manna and you didn't even mention it
     
  7. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Messages:
    2,206
    Likes Received:
    526
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The present "dispensation" -
    Age of grace
    Gospel age
    Church age

    Ecclesia - called out includes called together as a gathering or congregation, or church. It is used in a quotation of the OT - Heb. 2:12 quoting Psalm 22:25, in Acts 7:38 referring to the assembly on Sinai & in the LXX where the translation (of the Hebrew) is assembly or congregation.

    Were there local churches - local gatherings of the people of God in the OT? Yes. Families would gather for teaching, prayer & worship - e.g. Genesis 18:19 - & Levites were scattered throughout the land to serve the other tribes.

    When the Israelites were scattered by various invasions, it would appear that they set local synagogues wherever they found themselves. It appears from NT references that their pattern of worship was similar to Christian worship.

    Synogogues were set up for local teaching of congregations in the various towns - always the first location for Gospel preaching. It would appear that these had an evangelistic role as they included Jews, proselytes & Gentiles. Acts 13:42-43

    The great difference is the New Covenant, so that worship focuses on the Lord Jesus Christ & the Gospel, rather than the Law.

    Hwever, because the local Christian churches have a called out membership, they are necessarily separate from the pagan or Jewish community, & are not subject to a central church-state system as under the Old Covenant. The church-state system exists in a number of countries - though not now with disciplined enforcement - including the Church of England, & the German Lutheran Church. Baptism of new believers who had been "baptised" as infants became a capital offence.
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Manna was a physical material God gave to them in the OT, and Jesus used that toillistate thaT ANY WHO GETS SAVED BY hIM WILL BE EXPERIENCING THE REAL BREAD FROM HEAVEN, hIMSELF
    The Church of day of Pentecost was not in the OT, was it?
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Scofield though was old school Dispy, as didn't his 1917 edition teach salvation by law in OT. by grace in NT?
     
  10. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    880
    Likes Received:
    148
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian

    Oh Goodness.
     
  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    "Yeshua1,

    Material? or food;
    4 Then said the Lord unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you;


    Is He "spiritualizing it?

    I asked you to give examples of what you mean...you said we are "spiritualizing everything...can you demonstrate that...we do not care what you tweet out, if you cannot back it up.
     
  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    John of Japan,

    The physical food God provided was also a type....
    Here you go again...attempting to avoid answering the questions you were asked....several have brought this to your attention,and yet here it is again.

    Who says...a type is a figure of speech? only you?

    Dictionaries - Easton's Bible Dictionary - Type
    Type
    occurs only once in Scripture ( 1 Corinthians 10:11 , A.V. marg.). The Greek word tupos is rendered "print" ( John 20:25 ), "figure" ( Acts 7:43 ; Romans 5:14 ), "fashion" ( Acts 7:44 ), "manner" ( Acts 23:25 ), "form" ( Romans 6:17 ), "example" or "ensample" ( 1 Corinthians 10:6 1 Corinthians 10:11 ; Phil 3:17 ; 1 Thessalonians 1:7 ; 2 th 3:9 ;1 Timothy 4:12 ). It properly means a "model" or "pattern" or "mould" into which clay or wax was pressed,

    that it might take the figure or exact shape of the mould.


    The word "type" is generally used to denote a resemblance between something present and something future, which is called the "antitype."
    This is not a figure of speech....it is something present,pointing to something future.
    Just like the shadow leads to the reality;
    23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

    24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

    Nice try...but this gets a failing grade professor....I and many others see what you do not see....I do not try and make anything.I read and understand what is there

    .
    You are diverting from the real issus by not addressing what you were asked. Instead you seek to explain away what is offered...you try and look for a loophole, a word, that can evade the issue at hand.
    I will offer from the links already offered, what you now try and ignore.

    The woman at the well might have been a dispensationalist as she only looked the the natural and physical.She spoke of physical water...
    Jesus used that water and spoke metaphorically yes.....but He used it to teach literal and Spiritual truth...which you deny with all examples offered to you.
    .
    yes...He mostly took literal and physical things....then using metaphorical speech...spoke of heavenly and spiritual realities ;
    12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

    There are earthly physical and natural things, there are heavenly and spiritual things...
    .
    Spiritual truth being revealed...does not need an EXCUSE. it needs to be read with understanding...Spiritual understanding;
    9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

    10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

    11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

    12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

    13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

    14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    joj,pt2,
    Many see it clearly.I do not think you want to see it, or you have been bound by your set of rules that it does let you see it.We will help:Thumbsup

    You know John...I am not doing that. However...I am not a dentist who is trying to do a theological extraction here.....you are not exactly forth coming here.....what do I mean?
    I asked you what makes up a Covenant, you give a short answer...an agreement. I demonstrate an agreement, and you ignore it....that is on you.

    So....now you will accuse me of putting words in your mouth???:Cautious
    Would it kill you to give us in BB land a hint what you mean by...
    a purpose? Or are we left to speculate?
    You believe there was a purpose.....but No agreement?
    If I was to speculate...you might be thinking an omniscient God just knows.....However....even if I grant you that....God still communicates to us anthropromorphically this idea;
    12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

    13 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,

    14 Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.

    15 And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.

    16 For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.

    17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

    18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

    19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;

    20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.


    "

    Well it is there, but you need to open your eyes, or have them opened by God to these truths....others see it no problem...I will show examples as you ask where is the beef...:Cautious

    I asked you to define...that which makes up a Covenant? you really did not respond except with one word an agreement...
    If you have the time list what you see as making up a biblical Covenant.

    I have asked you to respond which you did not do...
    When did the Father give the ALL of jn 6:37-44 to the Son?
    was this done on purpose?
    Do you have any indication.....that they did not agree on this purpose?

    Okay...as I thought, but again....is there any indication anywhere of disagreement? When God put Abraham to sleep....He gave His Covenant to Abrahams seed....it was not multiple choice, or chance...it was the Covenant of Redemption being put into effect toward man in the Covenant of grace.

    And perhaps my dedicated and learned servant, you have a lack of clarity on these things....nevertheless....I will repeat I respect you translation and missionary service ....much more than I will accomplish in Kingdom service.
    I like you John, but I have to come at you a bit.:Sneaky
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    This is part of the lets move the target defense
     
  15. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Concept of Covenant in 'God of Promise'
    by Michael Horton

    Covenant


    1. The Covenant of Redemption


    Most biblical covenants are historical pacts God has made with creatures. The covenant of redemption, however, is an eternal pact between the persons of the Trinity. The Father elects a people in the Son as their mediator to be brought to saving faith through the Spirit. Thus, this covenant made by the Trinity in eternity already takes the fall of the human race into account. Chosen out of the condemned mass of humanity, the elect are no better or no more qualified than the rest. God has simply chosen according to his own freedom to display both his justice and his mercy, and the covenant of redemption is the opening act in this drama of redemption.
    Already we can see how such a covenantal framework challenges the idea of a solitary despot. The Father elects a people in the Son through the Spirit. Our salvation, therefore, arises first of all out of the joint solidarity of the divine persons. The joy of giving and receiving experienced by the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit spills over, as it were, into the Creator-creature relationship. In the covenant of redemption, the love of the Father and the Sprit for the Son is demonstrated in the gift of a people who will have him as their living head. At the same time, the Son’s love for the Father and the Spirit is demonstrated in his pledge to redeem that family at the greatest personal cost.

    Page 82

    The covenant of redemption, therefore, is as clearly revealed in Scripture as the Trinity and the eternal decree to elect, redeem, call, justify, sanctify, and glorify a people for the Son.

    Grace online Library;
    The proof of the doctrine has, however, a much wider foundation. When one person assigns a stipulated work to another person with the promise of a reward upon the condition of the performance of that work, there is a covenant. Nothing can be plainer than that all this is true in relation to the Father and the Son. The Father gave the Son a work to do; He sent Him into the world to perform it, and promised Him a great reward when the work was accomplished. Such is the constant representation of the Scriptures. We have, therefore, the contracting parties, the promise, and the condition. These are the essential elements of a covenant. Such being the representation of Scripture, such must be the truth to which we are bound to adhere. It is not a mere figure, but a real transaction, and should be regarded and treated as such if we would understand aright the plan of salvation. In Psalm 40, expounded by the Apostle as referring to the Messiah, it is said, ‘Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, I delight to do thy will,’ i.e., to execute thy purpose, to carry out thy plan. ‘By the which will,’ says the Apostle (Heb.10.10), ”we are sanctified (i. e., cleansed from the guilt of sin), through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.’ Christ came, therefore, in execution of a purpose of God, to fulfil a work which had been assigned Him. He, therefore, in John 17.4, says, ‘I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.’ This was said at the close of his earthly course. At its beginning, when yet a child, He said to his parents, ‘ Wist ye not that I must be about my Father’s business?’ (Luke 2.49.) Our lord speaks of Himself, and is spoken of as sent into the world. He says that as the Father had sent Him into the world, even so had He sent his disciples into the world. (John 17.18). ‘When the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman.’ (Gal. 4.4). ‘God sent his only begotten Son into the world.’ (1 John 4.9). God ‘sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.’ (Verse 10.)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    The work assigned to the Redeemer

    1. He was to assume our nature, humbling Himself to be born of a. woman, and to be found in fashion as a man. This was to be a real incarnation, not a mere theophany such as occurred repeatedly under the old dispensation. He was to become flesh; to take part of flesh and body; to be bone of our bone and flesh of our flesh, made in all things like unto his brethren, yet without sin, that He might be touched with a sense of our infirmities, and able to sympathize with those who are tempted, being Himself also tempted.
    2. He was to be made under the law, voluntarily undertaking to fulfil all righteousness by obeying the law of God perfectly in all the forms in which it had been made obligatory on man.
    3. He was to bear our sins, to be a curse for us, offering Himself as a sacrifice, or propitiation to God in expiation of the sins of men. This involved his whole life of humiliation, sorrow, and suffering, and his ignominious death upon the cross under the hiding of his Father’s countenance. What He was to do after this pertains to his exaltation and reward.
    The Promises made to the Redeemer

    Such, in general terms, was the work which the Son of God undertook to perform. The promises of the Father to the Son conditioned on the accomplishment of that work, were,

    1. That He would prepare Him a body, fit up a tabernacle for Him, formed as was the body of Adam by the immediate agency of God, uncontaminated and without spot or blemish.
    2. That He would give the Spirit to Him without measure, that his whole human nature should be replenished with grace and strength, and so adorned with the beauty of holiness that He should be altogether lovely.
    3. That He would be ever at his right hand to support and comfort Him is the darkest hours of his conflict with the powers of darkness, and that He would ultimately bruise Satan under his feet.
    4. That He would deliver Him from the power of death, and exalt Him to his own right hand in heaven; and that all power in heaven and earth should be committed to Him.
    5. That He, as the Theanthropos and head of the Church, should have the Holy Spirit to send to whom He willed, to renew their hearts, to satisfy and comfort them, and to qualify them for his service and kingdom.
    6. That all given to Him by the Father should come to Him, and be kept by Him, so that none of them should be lost.
    7. That a multitude whom no man can number should thus be made par- takers of his redemption, and that ultimately the kingdom of the Messiah should embrace all the nations of the earth.
    8. That through Christ, in Him, and in his ransomed Church, there should be made the highest manifestation of the divine perfections to all orders of holy intelligences throughout eternity. The Son of God was thus to see of the travail of his soul and be satisfied.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    The Covenant of Redemption | Monergism

    First of all, they found it in the Messianic Psalms—Psalm 2:7-9—where we have a picture of God speaking to the king: “I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD: He said to Me, ‘Thou art My Son, Today I have begotten Thee. Ask of Me, and I will surely give the nations as Thine inheritance, And the very ends of the earth as Thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron, Thou shalt shatter them like earthenware.’”

    Now in that Messianic Psalm (and by the way, that is a Psalm and that is a passage in that Psalm that is directly identified as messianic in the New Testament; we’re not doing this by implication; it is directly quoted as a Messianic Psalm in reference to Christ, so there is no speculation involved here), the Covenant Theologians say, “What is happening there?” God the Father is giving to the Son the nations as His inheritance and is appointing the Son in that phrase, “Thou art My Son, this day I have begotten Thee.” That doesn’t mean that Christ is coming into being that day. That is the language of the royal enthronement. “Thou art the Son, today I have begotten Thee.” It is as if the king of Israel has just ascended the throne now. And the Father is saying I have appointed you now as the monarch over all your inheritance, all the chosen people. And so the Son takes the role of Mediator and of head. You see this also in Psalm 40:7-9 which is another royal Psalm. You see it in Psalm 89:3and again it is picked up in Hebrews 10:5-7 and elsewhere, applied to Christ.

    The Covenant Theologians also noticed that in the Gospels Christ emphasizes that the Father had given Him work to do. The language in John 5:36 is interesting, isn’t it? The Father gave Me a work to do. And so elsewhere in the Gospels, Matthew and Mark, you will find Jesus saying things like, “It is my food to do the will of Him who sent Me.” Over and over we see the Son openly subordinating His will to the Father’s will. A classic example is in the Garden of Gethsemane, “Nevertheless, not My will, but Thy will be done.” And the Covenant Theologian basically pulls back from that and says, “Wait a second, we’re Orthodox Trinitarian Christians, we believe that the Son is very God, a very God. He is equal in power and glory with God the Father. What is the Son doing saying, ‘nevertheless not My will, but Thy will be done?’” He is referring to the obligations of the covenant which He voluntarily took on Himself in order to save His people. And the Father said, “Son, if you are going to be the surety of Your people, this is what You must do.” And the Son says to the Father, “That is what I want to do, Father, so that You will be glorified and that they will be saved.” Now we will build a foundation for this as we go through it.

    Theologians have quibbled over whether to call this a covenant. Okay. All Reformed Theologians believe in a decree. They believe that there is a plan that God has instituted from eternity for the saving of His people. Covenant Theologians simply say, “You really can’t understand that decree, especially as it regards to our redemption, until you understand the covenant aspect of it.” And the covenant aspect is the Covenant of Redemption. It is that eternal covenant--that covenant which is prior to time, in which the Son undertakes to be our surety and our mediator and the Father undertakes to give to the Son all the elect because of the Son’s perfect obedience.
     
  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    TrueCovenanter.com: The Ark of the Covenant Opened: Chapter 3

    2. Another property of this Covenant is Graciousness; it is not only the Covenant transacted with us, the Gospel-Covenant, that is, pure Grace; but this also that was transacted betwixt Jehovah and Christ, even while it was yet in his purpose, and as it was the eternal act of his will, is frequently called caris & eudokia, Grace and his good pleasure, or gracious pleasure, Eph. 1.5,6,7; 2. Tim. 1.9. his purpose and grace. Now Graciousness is attributed to the Covenant of Redemption, in a far other sense than 'tis attributed to the Covenant of reconciliation: For, (1.) Graciousness is attributed to the Covenant of Redemption, in regard of both Parties transacting; it was pure Grace that determined both the Parties, and engaged them both; the Father to send, and the Son to come; and this Grace was equally in both the Parties, and did shine equally and by way of efficiency in them both, Zech. 6.13, The counsel of peace was between them both. But graciousness is attributed to the Covenant of reconciliation; because of the shining glory and activity of the Grace of God through Jesus Christ, that is therein manifested; which Grace is in us subjectively; and though the acts thereof be ours in a vital formal manner; yet it is from God by way of efficiency, and it is his Grace, not ours, from which the Covenant hath its name of Grace, Titus 2.11; 1 Tim. 1.14;Eph. 1.6,7; And 2.5,7,8; 1 Cor. 15.10. (2.) Graciousness is attributed to the Covenant of Reconciliation; not only in regard of God's making such a Covenant with us; but also in regard of the tenor of that Covenant, and whole dispensation; the promises, conditions, and reward therein is all pure Grace; as the same is opposed unto, and contra-distinguished from works, which signify nothing in that covenant, as it is a Court of Righteousness and Life, Eph. 2.8,9, For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast. But of this Covenant of Redemption, Graciousness is a property thereof; mainly, because of the reasons following; but not because the whole tenor thereof, as well the conditions as promises were pure Grace considered as such, and contra-distinguished from works: For though pure Grace made this Covenant of Redemption; yet the condition thereof upon both sides were works.
     
  19. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    ibid;
    But Graciousness is attributed to the Covenant of Redemption:

    1. Efficiently, or in regard of the efficient cause thereof; the spring whence it came was Grace, pure Grace, and nothing else made it and gave it a being; it was not only an act of will, pleasure, freedom and sovereignty; but an act of gracious will, andthe good pleasure of his will, that made it, Eph. 1.5. Col. 1.19.

    2. Graciousness is attributed to this Covenant ultimately, in regard that the ultimate end and scope thereof is the manifesting the glory of the richness and freeness of Grace; tis a design of Grace that is driven and carried on in the Covenant of Redemption, Eph. 1.6, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 2 Tim. 1.9,Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling; not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.

    3. Graciousness is attributed to the Covenant of Redemption, because Grace was in it fundamentally; the whole contrivance and dispensation of Grace is bottomed upon this eternal transaction, and turns upon the hinge of this Compact betwixtJehovah and Christ; therefore all the mercies and faithfulness of the Lord that we are made to sing of within time, are laid upon this foundation, Psalm 89.1-3, I will sing of the mercies of the Lord for ever, with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations. For I have said, mercy shall be built up for ever, thy faithfulness shalt thou establish in the very heavens. I have made a Covenant with my chosen.

    4. Graciousness may be attributed to the Covenant of Redemption, because Grace was here originally; for here the first draughts of pure, sovereign, free Grace, and the unsearchable riches thereof, were drawn and portrayed; here is fountain-Grace, and from thence came the streams; here were the beginnings of that noble design of Grace laid, and from hence did they come forth, Col. 1.26,27, Even the mystery which had been hid from ages and from generations; but now is made manifest to his Saints. To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

    5. Graciousness is attributed to the Covenant of Redemption, because Grace is here comprehensively; even all that God hath been driving and acting upon the spirits of his people, by the Gospel-covenant and Ordinances thereof, and the work of his Spirit since the beginning of the world; and all that he shall do, until the day that the ransomed and redeemed company be perfected; even the whole plot of Grace, is all comprised in this eternal transaction with Christ, and to it are we led as the comprehension of all Covenant-grace and mercy, Isa. 55.3, Incline your ear and come unto me, hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make with you an everlasting Covenant, even the sure mercies of David.

    6. Graciousness is attributed to this Covenant, because Grace is here eminently; and indeed if the comparison might be fitly made, pure Gospel free Grace is more in the Covenant of Redemption, than in the Covenant of Reconciliation; for 'tis in the Covenant of Redemption principally, as water is in the fountain; and in the Covenant of Reconciliation by participation, and consequentially; because God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself by that Covenant; therefore he is now in Christ reconciling the world to himself by this Covenant of reconciliation, 2 Cor. 5.19-21, God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them, and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us, we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled unto God; for he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be the righteousness of God in him.

    7. Graciousness is attributed to the Covenant of Redemption, because Grace was therein exemplarily; for hereby God did act Grace in Christ, and made him a Samplar, and the first copy of free Grace to all his brethren, seed and heirs, that they might share with him, upon whom the first acts of eternal Covenant-love, and Grace fell, and that God might shew forth in him a pattern of Covenant-dealings, and out-lettings of Covenant-favour and promises, Psalm 89.26, He shall cry unto me, thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation. With Heb. 1.5. For unto which of the Angels said he at any time, thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son. Gal. 4.6, And because ye are Sons, God hath sent forth the spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, father. Col. 1.18, And he is the head of the body, the Church, who is the beginning, the first-born from the dead, that in all things he might have the preeminence.Rom. 8.17, And if children, then heirs, heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ, if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
     
  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    3. Another Property of the Covenant of Redemption, is Eternity: For,

    1. Both the Parties are eternal, the eternal God who is from everlasting to everlasting, Deut. 33.27. and the eternal Son of God, whose eternal power and Godhead, Rom. 1.20, is equal with God his Father. Phil. 2.6, And who shall declare his generation? Isa. 53.8. John 1.1,2, In the beginning the word was, and the word was with God, and the word was God, the same was in the beginning with God. Rev. 1.8, I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, saith the Lord; which is, which was, and which is to come.

    2. The union of the two natures in the Person of the Redeemer, which was transacted in this Covenant, is an eternal union; I mean, the human nature, which was from eternity designed unto a substantial union with God; being once assumed, stands in that substantial union for ever; so that it is impossible that the personal union which was transacted in the Covenant of Redemption, can be dissolved unto all eternity: for 'tis unquestionable that Christ shall stand glorified in our nature in heaven for ever; for even there is a throne for the man Christ, for the Lamb slain, for ever, Rev. 22.3, But the throne of God, and of the lamb, shall be in it, Acts 17.31.

    3. The New Covenant-relations which were established betwixt Jehovah and Christ, by this Covenant of Redemption, are eternal relations, which shall never cease, Heb. 1.5, For unto which of the Angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son. This Covenant-relation (I say) whereby God is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and whereby he hath a new Sonship, 1 Pet. 1.3, Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ: Even this, shall stand eternally; therefore Christ speaking of the promised glorious state of his people in heaven, doth four times own that Covenant-relation to his Father, even with respect to his and their being together in his Kingdom, Rev. 3.12, Him that overcometh, will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God; and I will write upon him my new name. And if our Covenant-relation to God which did spring out of his, shall stand, and not cease in our glorified state in heaven, much more his, Rev. 5.10, And hast made us unto our God Kings and Priests, and we shall reign on the earth. There the redeemed Musicians, that have the new Song in their mouths, own their Covenant-relation to God, and the Covenant-compellation, our God, is a note in their new Song.

    4. The offices which Christ did take on by this Covenant, are eternal offices, such as shall never cease, and whereof he shall never be divested; that his Mediatory-office, his Kingdom and Priesthood, are partakers of the eternity of this Covenant, is plain Scripture, Luke 1.33, And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever, and of his kingdom there shall be no end. Heb. 1.8., But unto the Son, he saith, thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever, a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom. And 5.6, Thou art a priest for ever, after the order of Melchisedec. And 7.25, Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. The only question is, whether or not this Covenant shall then cease, and Christ's Mediatory- office shall then cease, when Christ shall render up the Kingdom to the Father? 1 Cor. 15.24-29.

    Concerning the full answer whereof, I refer the Reader to what is written by Mr. Rutherford5 upon that question: For my part it satisfies me, that I see vestiges in the Scripture. (1.) That after the last Judgment, there shall be no use of such exercise and acts of Christ's Mediatory offices, as King, Priest, and Prophet to his Church as we are now under in this last Economy and dispensation of the Covenant of Grace; because there shall be no sin then, nor any enemy unsubdued; Christ having perfected his people, and presented them without spot to God, Eph. 5.27. and having subdued all his foes, and broken all opposition to his Kingdom, and the elect people being brought out of danger, so as they need no Temple or Ordinances, Rev. 21.4,22; 1Cor. 15.25. (2.) That Christ Mediator shall unquestionably cease from, and leave off such acts and exercise of his Mediatory-office, as his body the Church hath no need of; he shall be no Mediator of Reconciliation then, because there shall be no sin then; no Mediator to apply his death, or to intercede for sinners, for there shall be no sinners; he shall be no Mediatory King then to beat down his foes and opposers of his offices; for there shall be none, when he shall have put down all rule, and all authority and power, 1 Cor. 15.24. that is, all Magistracy and Government that now is, either in Church or State. (3.) It is manifest that after the last Judgment, there shall be a change of the Economic government, and that Christ shall render the kingdom Economic or dispensatory, to his father: but after what manner this change of government shall be, I do not so clearly understand: whether it shall be only by Christ's rendering an account to his Father of his deputed and delegated charge, having now saved all the elect, and subdued all rebels; or if it shall be by laying down his Commission, no more to rule in the former way of government; or whether the government shall be so changed, as the Father, Son, and Spirit, shall immediately govern the glorious Church, which seems to be insinuated, Rev. 21.22,23, And I saw no temple therein; for the Lord God almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the City had no need of the Sun, neither of the Moon to shine in it; for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. 1 Cor. 15.28, that God may be all in all. (4.) That Christ shall not then leave off to reign as Mediator, even when the fore-mentioned change is made; yet he remains the substantial glorified head of his mystical glorified body for ever, who shall appear eternally for us, as a pledge of the satisfaction once given, whose presence is a speaking token of the standing Confederacy and Peace betwixt God and us, in whose righteousness we stand clothed before God; in whose transactions and acting in the work of Redemption, God is eternally well-pleased, and by whose Covenant we stand and reign with him eternally and indefectibly in a confirmed state: else,

    [1.] To what end shall Christ stand glorified in our nature in heaven for ever?

    [2.] Why is the Lamb's throne in heaven eternal?Rev. 22.3.

    [3.] Else what means the Lamb's servants in heaven for ever? Rev. 22.3. and the new Song that is to the Lamb in heaven for ever, Rev. 5.12. and 7.10.

    [4.] Else what meaneth the Lamb's being in the midst of the glorified company, his leading them, being a temple, and a light unto them? Rev. 7.17. and 21.22,23. Sure the Lord Mediator as a glorified head of his glorious body in heaven, acteth as Mediator, though not as he acteth now; and though we cannot well determine what sort of leading, and what dispensation of influences from him are there (and no wonder if his union with us and headship over us even here, be a mystery, the knowledge whereof is referred to his coming again, John 14.20, At that day ye shall know that I am in my father, and you in me, and I in you): yet the Lamb's throne there, and his leading the redeemed, and being a light and temple to them, proves his peculiar headship to them.

    [5.] The blessings purchased by this Covenant of Suretiship, are partakers of eternity; they are eternal blessings: the Redemption obtained by the Mediator, is eternal Redemption, Heb. 9.12. and eternal Inheritance, Heb. 9.15. and eternal life, Titus 1.2. eternal Salvation, Heb. 5.9. and eternal Glory, 1 Pet. 5.20. You see then, that eternity is a property of the Covenant of Redemption, and that many things belonging to it are partakers of eternity: In a word, it is a Covenant which was transacted from eternity, before the foundation of the world was laid; it is as old as the Ancient of days; so that we cannot reckon the beginning thereof, Prov. 8.23, I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was: and which shall endure throughout eternity; for the righteousness of this Covenant, even the Surety-righteousness of Christ the Redeemer, shall be worn in glory for evermore, by all the redeemed people; and through the force and virtue of the blood thereof, shall the glorious Church stand and reign for ever, Rev. 19.8, And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white; for the fine linen is the righteousness of Saints. And 5.9, And they sung a new song, saying, thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof; for thou was slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.
     
    #100 Iconoclast, Feb 2, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...