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Featured Dispensationalism is not what Christ taught

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Bob Hope, Feb 12, 2016.

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  1. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    Not interested, it was a rhetorical question.
     
    #41 vooks, Feb 18, 2016
  2. Bob Hope

    Bob Hope Member

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    You should consider reading the works of Stephen Jones. His book "The struggle for the birthright" is well researched. If not check out this video by Rodger Norman.



     
    #42 Bob Hope, Feb 18, 2016
  3. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Scripture is pretty clear Israel will be intact in the Tribulation.

    And not likely you will find many Baptists who think they missed the Rapture for any reason, first, because many Baptists reject the Pre-Trib Rapture, and secondly, it would take falling into a poorer eschatology for them to think that.


    God bless.
     
    #43 Darrell C, Feb 18, 2016
  4. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Hate to say it, but that is a bit of an inactive response.

    Again, what Kingdom would first century Jews have been expectant of?

    I already know which Kingdom they awaited, just curious as to your view.


    God bless.
     
    #44 Darrell C, Feb 18, 2016
  5. Bob Hope

    Bob Hope Member

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    What most do not take into account was that Israel as a nation was not present when Christ lived. What existed was a melting pot of peoples. Sure there were enough flesh and blood Israelites to facilitate the Messiahs birth but most Jews were not physically Hebrews nor were they Israelites spiritually. They were blind to any real fulfillment of scripture. It is not a relevant question to ask what kingdom they expected.

    The fact remains that the salvation message taught by Christ is the same one commanded in the great commission. It is the same message found in many of the apostles writings deemed dispensational. There is no different salvation for Jews than there is for Gentiles. It has always been the same and will remain the same until Christ returns. Read the story of the valley of dry bones and ask yourself who this Israel truly is and how does God purpose to cleanse them?
     
    #45 Bob Hope, Feb 18, 2016
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I don't think all in either camp are arbitrary in their method, but perhaps both allow their theoretical view points to influence interpretation (I believe this true as each contends theirs is the proper system to view Scripture as a whole). I have simply rejected the need for either while accepting that both can point to biblical truths.

    Sent from my TARDIS
     
    #46 JonC, Feb 18, 2016
  7. Bob Hope

    Bob Hope Member

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    What is your opinion of non canonized books? And do you think that if there were mistakes in the modern bible that one should have less faith in those scriptures?
     
    #47 Bob Hope, Feb 18, 2016
  8. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    Every [Edited: Name Calling] thinks they are Jews
     
    #48 vooks, Feb 18, 2016
  9. Bob Hope

    Bob Hope Member

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    Your statement doesn't make sense. You mean every moron thinks they are Israelites? Jew is a religious term.
     
    #49 Bob Hope, Feb 18, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2016
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    My opinion on non canonized books is that they can be useful but not authoritative in terms of actual Scripture. I also do not see them useful in terms of doctrine).

    I believe that there is always the possibility/probability of mistakes in translations as men are fallible. I do not believe, however, that that such potential justifies less faith in Scripture. We have to realize that translations are tools.

    Sent from my TARDIS
     
    #50 JonC, Feb 18, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2016
  11. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    That Israel was intact in the Lord's Day goes without saying, as there are many indicators in both the Gospels as well as the Epistles to see that it was.

    I will give you an example of each:


    Matthew 8:9-10

    King James Version (KJV)

    9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.

    10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.


    The contrast here is between Israel and Gentiles.


    Romans 11:25

    King James Version (KJV)

    25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.


    Israel would have had to be in existence in order for her to come under this blindness, which coincides with the Mystery of Gentile Inclusion, which of course began at Pentecost.

    As far as the view that they were Hebrew in that day, or today, I see that as a view that has potential foundation in racist attitude. If nothing else, we would consider that the inscription placed on the Cross was also written in Hebrew. Paul was an Hebrew of the Hebrews.


    God will fulfill, Nationally, the promise given in Ezekiel 36:22-27.

    We see this same promise given here:


    Romans 11:25-26

    King James Version (KJV)

    25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

    26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:


    Because of the events of the Tribulation and the Return of Christ, Paul states "All Israel" which is correct because all that are unbelieving perish by the time the Sheep and Goat Judgment ends and the Kingdom is established.

    God is not done with Israel yet. They have been around since their creation as a Nation, have never disappeared (though scattered), and will be intact and once again performing Levitical Service when the Tribulation begins.


    God bless.
     
    #51 Darrell C, Feb 19, 2016
  12. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    The term "Jew" is not a religious term, it is derived from "Judah," and referred to those inhabitants of the Southern Kingdom, and since become a primary designation for those of Israel.


    God bless.
     
    #52 Darrell C, Feb 19, 2016
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