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Dispensationalism

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by The Bible Answer Kid, Jun 25, 2005.

  1. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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  2. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    On July 11, 2005 03:46 AM ituttut posted the following:
    This statement is not in accord with Scripture making Salvation dependent, not on the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, but on the call of the Apostle Paul. I responded in a post dated July 11, 2005 08:58 AM, as follows:

    It appears to me that the above Scripture show that the doctrine of hyper-diapensationalist ituttut is indeed false.


    Later in response to a lengthy posts by ituttut, dated July 18, 2005 12:23 AM and July 19, 2005 04:56 AM, I responded with the following, posted July 19, 2005 04:16 PM:
    Now it appeared to me that ituttut was arguing that
    .

    It is quite possible that I misunderstood what he was trying to say. However, I responded that if that were his contention it was totally false and quoted a Scripture identifying the church as the Bride of Jesus Christ. Nowhere did I indicate that the Church is not also called the Body of Jesus Christ.

    ituttut responded with the following post on July 21, 2005 06:18 PM:
    In his response ituttut states that I “deny we are in the Body of Christ.” My eyes are not what they once were but I fail to see where I made such a statement. But then ituttut is a hyper-dispensationalist and believes that Christianity started with Paul;
    To allay ituttut’s misconception about my beliefs related to the Church and the Body of Jesus Christ i quoted on July 21, 2005 11:18 PM the statement from the Baptist Faith and Message
    Fast forward to July 23, 2005 02:07 AM:
     
  3. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    I read this thread debate lately. It debates about 'the body of Christ' & 'the bride of Christ'.

    Actually, both are no difference, both are synonymous meaning.

    Revelation 21:9 declares, New Jerusalem is Christ's bride. Whose are dwelling New Jerusalem? All ages of believers either Jew or Gentile through Jesus Christ.

    Right now, we are under the new covenant because of Calvary's result. During Old Testament time, Gentiles were strangers and separated from commonwealth of Isreal. But NOW, Gentiles are join with Jews together as reconciled through Calvary by Christ's blood.

    During Lord's supper in the upper room. Christ told His disciples, about the wine, He told them, this is the new covenent, that he made covenant with many - Mark 14:24. Through His blood of Calvary.

    All nations, all races are forgived through His own blood(new covenant), now all are unity together into one which is Christ's body or bride as church.

    Most of pretribs, premills are depends on dispensationalism. Some posttribs are dispensationalism.

    The most major reason, why they teaching 'dispensationalism', because of the issue on distinction(seperate) between Israel and Church, deals with millennial issue.

    Many things I do agree with Paul33, what he saying as he interpreting Scriptures. I know he is premill. I am amill. Myself was premill before for a long time.

    OldRegular explains the scriptures very clear, I agree with him. He understands the purpose of Calvary and the new covenant.

    I think many dispensationalists seem do not actual understand clear enough what the New Testament teaching on the new covenant, and what Calvary is all about.

    The mainly reason is, pretribs deny Rev. 13:7, 10- 'saints' is Church. Because, Rev. 13:7-18 warning us very clear that the persecutions shall hit Church hard before Christ comes. Many Christians dislike hear what the truths of the Bible saying. Instead they rather having their own itching ears want to hear pastors preaching positives. Like as they love to hear word, 'rapture' or 'escape from the coming persecution'. That is kind of itching ears today.

    Cannot you see history of Chruch showing us so overwhelming, that millions of Christians were persecuting and killed throughout centuries, even they are still persecuting today?

    There is no promise in the Bible telling us that we shall persecute from tribulations, persecutions. Why shall we suffering tribulations and persecutions? Because John 16:33 tells us, that we must have tribulations, and we should be cheerful, because Christ already victory over them(through Calvary). So, therefore, we should follow Christ's example - 1 Peter 2:21.

    I consider, dispensationalism is a man-mading teachings, instead what the Bible actual saying.

    By the way. Sorry I didn't discuss on 4 verses of word,'dispensation'. Ed Edwards already showed 4 verses in the post recently. Later, I will explain the defintion of 'dispensation' with 4 verses, what Apostle Paul actual talking about.

    Also, I was supposed to discuss on verses on the comparing of 'this age' & 'age to come'. Sorry, I didn't doing it. I hope I will discuss on them next week with verses.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  4. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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  5. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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    To a man of understanding, and a man that has entered into the Body of Christ by the Grace of God through faith of His Savior. Christian faith, ituttut
     
  6. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    There were two dispensations...Before Christ's resurrection, and after. In the first, people offered living things they owned which were killed by the priests & their blood shed, according to the instructions God gave to Moses. All those animals, the methods & circumstances of their killings & disposal of their various parts, the objects within the Tabernacle & later the temple, all pointed to JESUS. Jesus' sacrifice of Himself was the ULTIMATE sacrifice...GOD, suffering and dying for those whom He had created, thus fulfilling all the laws of sacrifice PERFECTLY,once and for all. After HIS sacrifice, there remained no other sacrifices to be made. After His resurrection, the NEW dispensation was salvation by believing in Jesus as Lord and savior, believing He died for our sins and rose from the dead the 3rd day after His death, and obeying Him.

    The first dispensation ended with Jesus and was ended BY Jesus. During his earthly lifetime Jesus followed the rules of the first dispensation, but after His resurrection, His command was, "Believe in Me, follow My example, proclaim My gospel everywhere." We are under THAT dispensation.

    While speaking of dispensations...J.N.Darby started a FALSE DOCTRINE...the "seven church ages" myth...within his dispensationalist theory. This false doctrine was spread in the USA & Canada by one William Branham(1909-1965). Why is it false? it has NO SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT, and is shown false by secular history as well. For example, its "Philadelphian" period(1820-1900), when the church was supposed to be at its purest, saw the founding of several cults(Millerites, 7th Day Adlibbers, Mor"m"ons, Jehovah False Witlesses, to name a few. It saw the American Civil war, the Crimean War, the mexican War, The Spanish-American war, the systematic attempts to destroy the American Indian by bullet, alcohol & disease, and the births of most of the most notorious figures of WW2. It saw the most corrupt period in American history, the Reconstruction Era. It saw Mexico wracked by constant turmoil. This was perhaps the most decadent period in the history of the world since before the Flood...and some dare say the church was at its purest? Yeah, right........

    Anyone believing that false doctrine had best chuck it ASAP.
     
  7. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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  8. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Study of the Bible will reveal that God, in His self revelation has, in general, dealt with man through a covenant relationship. This is the basic premise of Covenant theology. These covenants are unilaterally imposed with the terms dictated by God. The covenants in general consist of one or more commands coupled with a promise or promises for obedience. Covenant theology teaches that there are two basic covenants: 1] the Covenant of Works which defines the relationship between Adam and God prior to the fall and 2] the Covenant of Grace through which God works out His promise of redemption after the fall. That grace is manifest in this promise of redemption is evident; the continuing revelation of God shows that this promise to fallen man is fulfilled in the redemptive work of Jesus Christ. In general, covenant theology teaches that all successive covenants are subsidiary to this Covenant of Grace. Although the Covenant of Works preceded the Covenant of Grace in time, the Covenant of Grace is an eternal covenant, since Scripture teaches that those who would be redeemed, the elect, were chosen before the foundation of the world [Ephesians 1:3-6] and that the promised Redeemer [Jesus Christ, the Incarnate Son of God] was slain from the foundation of the world [Hebrews 9:26, 1 Peter 1:20, Revelation 13:8].

    The Covenant of Grace constitutes the basis for the salvation of the elect of God through Jesus Christ, the mediator of the Covenant, the only mediator between God and man [1 Timothy 2:5]. The Covenant of Grace is perhaps best understood as an eternal covenant between the members of the Godhead which includes the following elements[9]:

    1. God the Father chose a people to be His own;
    2. God the Son agrees to pay the penalty for the sins of all those the Father gives Him so that none are lost; and
    3. God the Holy Spirit agrees to apply the work of the Son to those chosen by God.

    We must not think that this Covenant of Grace was preceded by a proposal of terms by one person of the Triune Godhead followed by deliberation prior to acceptance or rejection of the proposal by the other persons of the Triune Godhead. God is One and the nature of the Godhead is such that perfect harmony, in fact, unity of thought must exist within the Triune Godhead.

    Holy Scripture is the story of the outworking of the Covenant of Grace in time and history. Though there is one Covenant of Grace [and many subsidiary covenants] there have been two primary administrations of the Covenant, one before the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ and one after His death and resurrection. The first administration as recorded in the Old Testament dealt in types and shadows of things to come [Colossians 2:17, Hebrews 8:5 and 10:1]; the second administration, as recorded in the New Testament, presents the spiritual reality of that which was promised. This second administration was instituted by the death of Jesus Christ [Hebrews 7:14-28] and is the fulfillment of the Old Testament promise of a New Covenant [Jeremiah 31:31-33, Hebrews 8:6-13]. The elect of God have, since the fall of Adam, received the blessings of the Covenant solely through the Grace of God.
     
  9. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    1. God the Father desires that none perish;
    2. God the Son agrees to pay the penalty for the sins of the world.
    3. God the Holy Spirit agrees to apply the work of the Son to those who do not persist in rebellion against God.
     
  10. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Robycop3: " While speaking of dispensations...J.N.Darby started a FALSE DOCTRINE...the "seven church ages" myth...within his dispensationalist theory. "

    I agree, J.N.Darby started a 7 church ages myth.
    I have taught nothing among you save Jesus and Him
    resurrected. READ MY LIPS:
    I teach only the four verses that contain the word
    'dispensation'. I do not teach Darbian dispenstion,
    i teach Biblical dispenstatin. Please note also, i
    never told you what the four verses mean, only what
    they say.
     
  11. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I agree 100%, Ed.

    The 7 churches to which Jesus told John to write all existed at the same time, and types of those churches have existed simultaneously ever since. jesus' words to those 7 churches are as applicable to today's churches as they were to their original recipients, but nowhere in them is there any hint that the church in general would undergo 7 "ages".
     
  12. John3v36

    John3v36 New Member

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    so true
     
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