Do any of you feel raising hands in testimony is wrong

latterrain77,

Do you think David was doing the "hokey pokey" "or something akin to it" when he danced the Ark of the Covenant into the City of David (2 Sam 6:15-16)? Had you been there would you have "despised him" as Saul's daughter Michal did, and as you apparently despise the show of outward emotion toward God today?

 

Honestly, John Wells, I envisioned David jumping, dancing, playing his tambourine in his ephod praising God with such JOY! I'm glad you brought that up!

I get SO excited about sharing Jesus with the little ones (3-4) and I hope they pick up on my excitement. Tonight they learned 'All Have Sinned' and they all understood who 'all' is and what 'sin' is.

Diane

 

It is scriptural as others have pointed out. It is generally a sign of humbleness towards God. Some people don't feel comfortable doing so but I think that is partly out of embarassment to show emotion. I see nothing wrong if you want to praise him with your hands lifted. We can also pray when we rise up, when we lie down, when we are walking or sitting. God loves the praises and adoration of his people.

If someone did it for show, who would notice if they were concentrating on the Lord. I don't worry weather someone wants to lift their hands or not. It is between them and God.

 

Well I hope he loves you in Christ!

 

latterrain77: This verse proves my point. Stretching out hands is NOT the same thing as "lifting up" arms. This verse pictures a humble man (my soul longs for you) in a weary state of mind (parched land) with his hands stretched out in front of him, his hands held together in prayer.

There you go day dreaming and making stuff up again! Please quote the chapter and verse that describes "hands held together in prayer!"

If I fell prostrate in prayer on the floor in your church, would that be outside the bounds of "DECENT and orderly?"

 

I don't know why, but this whole thread reminds me of a joke...

Why don't Baptist (married) couples ever make love standing up? Because they're afraid someone from the church might accidentally walk in and see them and think they're dancing.

 

It all depends on whether you use an effective under-arm deodorant...(trying to look up the chapter and verse for that one...)

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

Yes and no. It's ok to lift up your hands when worshipping the Lord as long as your heart is right. If your local church practices that, then go for it, praise the Lord! He is worthy! But if you visit a conference where the believers do not practice that, then don't be the only idiot waving your hands in the air. If you do, your heart is not right, you are offending your brothers.

Lamentations 3:41 Let us lift up our heart with our hands unto God in the heavens.

Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

 

On the other hand, if you're from a local church that does not raise their hands, and you are at a conference where everyone is lifting up their hands praising the Lord, don't be the only bump on a log standing there as if you're protesting it. But if the people start blabbing unintelligible babble, staggering around like drunkards, laughing uncontrollably, and sticking to the floor...then that is your cue to turn around and walk out quietly.

1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

 

Hi JohnWells. You said; " Do you think David was doing the "hokey pokey" "or something akin to it" when he danced the Ark of the Covenant into the City of David (2 Sam 6:15-16)?" Are you suggesting that aggressive "dancing" (with all of one's might) in the church is appropriate behavior?

The text says;

"And it was so, that when they that bare the ark of the LORD had gone six paces, he sacrificed oxen and fatlings. And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod. So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet. " 2 Sam. 6: 13-16.

David's dancing occurred in a political militaristic setting having reacquired the ark of the covenant (it was a quasi war dance of victory). David's dance did not occur in a church and, it was not connected with praying in any manner.

The LORD has set the rules for prayer behavior in public settings (the practice of "raising arms high in the air" in a church setting is always connected with prayer) and the Bible strictly forbids public displays of religious pomp (Matt. 6: 5-6).

"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly." Matt. 6: 5-6 Thanks! latterrain77

 

(I WILL be telling that one.)

 

latterrain77: The LORD has set the rules for prayer behavior in public settings (the practice of "raising arms high in the air" in a church setting is always connected with prayer) and the Bible strictly forbids public displays of religious pomp (Matt. 6: 5-6).

Once again you take an example and apply universal application to it. You really ought to learn how to put two + two together in the Bible. In verses 9-13 the Bible says, "This then is how you should pray." If you are consistent in your application, that is the only prayer you ever pray latterrain77!

When you look at scripture you should determine the audience, the circumstances or situation, and the context (what preceeds and follows). If you do your homework in Matt 6:5-6 you will see that Jesus is warning His disciples against hypocrisy when they pray. They should not purposely position themselves in public areas so that others will see them praying and be impressed by their piety. If the love for prominence is the only motive in prayer, then, Jesus declares, the prominence gained is the only reward.

It is reading too much into the passage to use it to prohibit public prayer. The early church met together for collective prayer (Acts 2:42; 12:12; 13:3; 14:23; 20:36). The point is not where we pray. At issue here is, why we pray—to be seen by people or to be heard by God.

Your previous statements fault Solomon here! He was praying in public before the alter of the Lord even! He "spread out his hands toward heaven;" and prayed. How do you, with folded hands clasped together (which you claim is the only and proper position of the hands), spread them out toward heaven? Your own personal view of proper liturgy is severely flawed and in conflict with God's Holy Word!

 

Hi JohnWells. You said; "...in Matt 6:5-6 you will see that Jesus is warning His disciples against hypocrisy when they pray." Yes, I agree. In addition, He said; "... for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men." Matt. 6: 5 (bold is mine).

Praying is NOT supposed to be such that we make ourselves "seen" by others. The practice of those in the church who raise their arms high in the air is connected with praying, and they desire to "be seen of men."

Praying should be "private" in nature (v6). Unobtrusive. It should be unassuming and largely unnoticeable to those in the surroundings. Even the slightest effort on someone's part to "be seen" violates the principle.

You said; " They should not purposely position themselves in public areas so that others will see them praying and be impressed by their piety." I agree (see above). But this is precisely what the "arms to the sky" folks do! - trying to impress with their showy signs of piety.

You said; " It is reading too much into the passage to use it to prohibit public prayer." When Jesus prayed, he very often went out "alone" and hid from the public viewing (Matt. 14: 23, Matt. 26: 36, Matt. 26: 42, 44, Mark 1: 35, Mark 6: 46, Mark 14: 32, Luke 5: 16, Luke 6: 12, Luke 9: 18, etc.). Public praying (i.e. praying with others around) must always be unassuming, private and utterly non showy. It should be virtually unnoticeable or nearly so. Luke 11: 1 illustrates Jesus "publicly" praying yet the Lord was still "private" and unassuming about it.

"And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples." Luke 11: 1 (bold is mine)

In other words, the disciple waited until the Lord was done before he approached him. He respected the privacy of the Lord's quiet moment of solitude in the public prayer setting. He didn't jump on top of Him and start shouting halleluiah with his arms held up to the sky.

You said; " Your previous statements fault Solomon here!" I don't view Solomon's gesture as being the same or even remotely similar to what some practice in the church these days. The practice of some in the church today is to extend "arms held high into the sky" like the "wave" at a baseball game.

You said; " How do you, with folded hands clasped together..." By placing two hands side by side they are spread out, in front of you, elbows bent at a sharp angle, palms are faced upward toward heaven.

You said; "...(which you claim is the only and proper position of the hands)," I never said that the "only" proper position of the hands is together. Hands held together is one way (perhaps the most common way) of a humble, contrite and unassuming expression, so it is fine. However, that which is practiced by some in the church, with arms raised to the sky in a showy display of "look at me" is not fine at all.

You said; " Your own personal view of proper liturgy is severely flawed and in conflict with God's Holy Word!" Not at all. My liturgy is NO liturgy other than what Jesus Himself has demonstrated (see above). However, those who raise their arms high into the air, in a showy display among a church setting is THEIR liturgy. It is camp, showy and pomp (at best). Let all things be done decently and in order (1 Cor. 14:40). Thanks! latterrain77

 

latterrain77:You said; " Your previous statements fault Solomon here!" I don't view Solomon's gesture as being the same or even remotely similar to what some practice in the church these days. The practice of some in the church today is to extend "arms held high into the sky" like the "wave" at a baseball game.

And that's not the case I'm defending. I'm defending the unassuming lifting of one or both hands without fanfare in prayer and/or worship as that person feels led by the Holy Spirit to do, and in the same manner and for the same reason Solomon did. To make a statement that anyone and everyone who does that is seeking personal attention (self-glorification) rather than glorifying God is invoking God-like judgment of that person's heart. You may "go there" but I never would!

 

To all on the negative side of this debate, there are several good books by very anti-charismatic/pentacostal authors/theologians that address the church's over-correcting for the charismatic/pentacostal movement, to the point of stiffling the work of the Holy Spirit within the body of Christ today. I'm sorry I cannot provide specifics (author/book). Perhaps others can. If it were not for the abuse of the spiritual realm by some, we probably wouldn't be having this debate. That someone with genuineness of heart who raises their hand(s) in prayer/worship are categorized with the "charismatic crazies" is sad!

 

Jews do not lift their hands above their waist when praying or in worship. They lift their hands to about chest level, palms up. There is no swaying or waving their hands. It is done humbly, unto the Lord. This is a practice that continues today. I think that most people that raise hands do it with too much emotion and not enough humility. Holiness is also a key to the practice. I find it embarassing to be in the same room with people raising their hands. I also find it being done, but in churches that are more new evangelical in practice.