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Do Calvinists Distort the Gospel?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by thatbrian, Jan 25, 2018.

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  1. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    I was not referring to you or anything you've said, specifically.

    Yes, the WoG spoken by a Muslim can be used by the Spirit to save a man, but that is not the point of the OP.
     
    #41 thatbrian, Jan 26, 2018
  2. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    We are discussing the gospel, not the effects of the gospel.

    The gospel is news, and that is so important as to separate true Christianity from false. Once we start mixing our response to the gospel with the actual gospel we stray from Christianity into legalism aka, self-salvation.
     
    #42 thatbrian, Jan 26, 2018
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  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Explanation:

    The gospels are the same, i.e., both sides hold to the one gospel of Christ. They disagree on philosophical explanations about this gospel. Members of each side often lean on such understanding and confuse their understanding of such things with the gospel itself.
     
    #43 JonC, Jan 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  4. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    First, I'm not speaking about the position one holds intellectually, but the delivery of that information to another.

    Second, what do you mean by your statement above?
     
    #44 thatbrian, Jan 26, 2018
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    If you believe that Arthur Arnot and William Brain invented the electric drill to help brain surgeons get into a skull, designing tool for that specification but I believe that they invented the tool for dentists then we are both wrong...but we still have the tool in our workshop. Just like the tool itself is not affected by our misunderstanding, the gospel is not affected by the misunderstanding of Christians. The gospel is greater than our philosophies. This is evidenced in the work of Whitefield and Wesley; Calvin and Arminius; Edwards and Finney. The problem comes in when people on either side cannot distinguish between the gospel and their understanding of it.

    The disagreement is not Christ crucified and resurrected. It is not about what one must do to be saved. It isn't about the Kingdom. It is about the role of human will in salvation. The entire premise is philosophical (free-will and divine will).
     
    #45 JonC, Jan 26, 2018
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  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    I would use the language of obey rather than agree the idea of obedience is all throughout the New Testament obedience and Disobedience I don't see the idea of agreeing as if it's an option or we have your multiple choices while I could agree I could partially agree I feel like agreeing I don't feel like agreeing I think when God gives us a command or several commands we're just to obey.
     
    #46 Iconoclast, Jan 26, 2018
  7. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    If that is the case, why do you think that the Apostle Paul was so worked up over this issue?
     
    #47 thatbrian, Jan 26, 2018
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    as already noted in Gal 1:6-9 Paul discusses this point drawing a much finer line about what is or is not the Gospel than has been drawn here.
     
    #48 BobRyan, Jan 26, 2018
  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    He wasn't. Paul emphasized that we are justified by grace through faith, and that this is a righteousness apart from the Law. This is a common belief among both camps. It is the philosophy where they disagree.

    The problem comes in when people on both sides of the argument are unable to separate their understanding of these philosophical issues from the gospel itself. This can manifest itself in several ways (for example, in dogmatic opposition to other Christians they deem hold "another gospel", an inability to communicate the gospel without making it servant to their theology, skewed evangelism, etc.).
     
    #49 JonC, Jan 26, 2018
  10. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    First, I did speak to obedience. I said: Walk in Step with the Spirit. Secondly, before a person can do that with the right motives, they must agree with God that His ways are good, righteous and holy. And the Word Does speak to that.

    Amos 3:3--How can two walk together lest they are agreed?

    We Yoke up with Christ...

    James says that the "wavering man"...someone who has not agreed that God is good and His ways are righteous...cannot receive from God.

    So, if you study a little deeper, the entirety of Scripture talks about "Agreeing" with God and obedience goes hand in hand.
     
    #50 JonShaff, Jan 26, 2018
  11. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    1 Corinthians is the scriptural definition of the gospel.
    "another" gospel is illustrated in Acts Chapter 15 which is largely synonymous with "another gospel" of the Galatians epistle.
    "Do this, Don't do that"...", etc, etc, etc...

    HankD
     
    #51 HankD, Jan 26, 2018
  12. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Do Calvinists Distort the Gospel?

    They can.

    HankD
     
    #52 HankD, Jan 26, 2018
  13. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Your own acronym says that's not the case--what's the "P" in Tulip?

    Paul says in Romans 1:16 that the Gospel is the Power of God for Salvation--Every Aspect of Salvation--Justification, Sanctification, Glorification.

    You are hugely mistaken if you do not agree with that Biblical precedent.
     
    #53 JonShaff, Jan 26, 2018
  14. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    #54 JonShaff, Jan 26, 2018
  15. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    #55 JonShaff, Jan 26, 2018
  16. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Jon,
    I believe we are "agreeing" on many things....but I think there is a slight nuance here.
    Sometimes to obey...is a command regardless if the person agrees or not.
    They might not understand, they might not feel like it, nevertheless we are called to obedience of faith....here is an example...husbands dwell with your wife according to knowledge....lol....do you have that one down?!?
     
    #56 Iconoclast, Jan 26, 2018
  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    #57 Iconoclast, Jan 26, 2018
  18. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    LOL...i don't have much down.

    I think we do agree, and maybe we are talking past each other. I'm simply talking about what the Scriptures present--the ideal realities as a result of the Gospel being lived out in the Life of a Believer. So, in order to have a healthy relationship with the Lord (and one that affects the Body in Love), agreeing with God and Walking in Step with the Holy Spirit is imperative. This is having a right heart and right motives...Jesus said the Pharisees honored God with their lips, "But their hearts were far from Him."

    i don't want to get too far from the OP...my simple position (and i believe it is 100% Biblical) is that the Gospel is not just the news someone believes for Salvation, the Gospel is also the heartbeat of the Believer for a deeper walk with Christ. :) Blessings My Friend!
     
    #58 JonShaff, Jan 26, 2018
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  19. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Why would you want to add to the gospel? Paul tells us very clearly what the gospel is in 1 Cor 15:3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
    4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.

    That's the gospel. The death, burial, and resurrection of Christ on our behalf as recorded in the scriptures. Not a word about transforming us, maturing us, or anything else. If you try to add transforming or maturing to the gospel you add works to the gospel and that is blasphemy.

    Just stick to what the bible says and you will not go wrong.
     
    #59 TCassidy, Jan 26, 2018
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  20. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    The Gospel is that Christ Died, was buried, And Raised Again...so that we May be Justified, Sanctified, Glorified. You quote 1 Cor. 15---full context is the Resurrection of Believers living with Christ in perfected state forever. The Gospel does not simply Justify (hallelujah it does!), but it is also the NEWS that Christ will Glorify His Servants.

    Paul prefaces his entire Epistle to the Romans--This is the Gospel--and chapters 1-11 give the doctrinal realities concerning the Gospel.

    The OP is too vague--He probably meant to say, what are the Gospel Truths one must preach in order to be preaching an evangelist message in order to call the Lost to Repentance.
     
    #60 JonShaff, Jan 26, 2018
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