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Do Calvinists Distort the Gospel?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by thatbrian, Jan 25, 2018.

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  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Amen --
    I choose to believe that when God said "God so loved the WORLD and not just the FEW of Matthew 7" John 3:16 that He meant it.
    I choose to believe that when God said "He is not willing for ANY to perish but for all to come to repentance" 2 Peter 3 -- He meant it.
    I choose to believe that When God said "he came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not" John 1:11 -- He meant it.
    I choose to believe that when God said "Jerusalem Jerusalem who kills the prophets.. how I WANTED to spare your children.. but you would not" Matt 23 He meant it.
    I choose to believe that when God says "we BEG you on behalf of Christ be reconciled to God" 2 Cor 5 - He means it.
    I choose to believe that when God says "God is NOT partial" Rom 2:11 - He meant it
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Paul condemns that idea in 1 Cor 6 and in Romans 2
    John condemns that idea in 1 John 3
    Christ condemns that idea in Matt 7 "by their fruits you shall know them"
     
  3. Theodore A. Jones

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    The foundational soteriological assumptive of both Arminianism and Calvinism is the erroneous conjecture that the sin of murdering Jesus Christ is a direct benefit rather than an accountable sin by law. An individual's salvation is predicated his faith to obey the law Paul references."For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom. 2:13
    You are wasting your time arguing over the carcass of a dead religious horse.
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Murder is sin. God did not "need Roman soldiers to murder or Jews to hate Christ" in order to save mankind.

    Sin does not "save"
     
  5. Theodore A. Jones

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    Neither have I said it does.
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Christ saved mankind IN SPITE of the Jew's efforts to stop him and the Roman efforts to stop Him.

    Satan used mankind to tempt Christ not to save mankind -- Satan caused those whom Christ came to save... to hate Christ and to torture Him.
     
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Hello taj,

    Could you clarify for us how you see works in the salvation of sinners?
     
  8. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Six Hour Warning
    This thread will be closed sometime after 12 AM Pacific.
     
  9. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    But it was just getting interesting. :(
     
  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    Start a new one. :)
     
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  11. Theodore A. Jones

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    "For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom. 2:13 NIV But that law Paul has referenced is not a part of the written code.
    I've previously posted this on several occasions. If you do not agree with Paul's soteriological paradigm contact him with your objections.
     
  12. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

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    I asked, "Can they change their condemnation by simply believing in Him, as Jesus said two verses prior (John 3:16)?"
    I'm afraid your argument is with Jesus, my friend. He said they [we] could if they only believe.

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

    John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

    John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

    Why would Jesus tell us we could have eternal life if only we believe if we "in fact, will not, believe"?
     
  13. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    No, my argument is with you. Jesus knows who will believe. "My sheep hear my voice and follow me."

    Because He gives a new heart of faith to His sheep.
     
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  14. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    law keeping does not save a sinner.....The only law keeper kept it 100% for everyone who believes
     
  15. Theodore A. Jones

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    I said if you disagree with Paul contact him with your complaints. Isn't that what I said?
     
  16. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    TAJ,
    Paul understood what he meant, and I do not have any problem with his teaching...it is your understanding that is being called into question.
    I am asking you for clarification because the gospel is in question here,
    From what I am seeing you do not have a handle on it...clarify if you can
     
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Paul says in Eph 6:2 that that law is the one where the 5th commandment "is the first commandment with a promise"
    Paul says in Romans 7 that that law includes "do not covet".
    In James 2 we are reminded that it contains all the Ten Commandments.
    In Romans 13 Paul lists all the commandments related to our duty to our fellow man - as unchanged from Christ's pre-cross list of the same in Matthew 19
     
  18. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    I am confused. If what you are saying is accurate, why would Jesus ever bring up verses like John 3:16 and avoid the confusion? It would have been better for Him to say, "For God so loved the Elect, He gave His only begotten son so that when the elect believes in Him, they will have everlasting life."
     
  19. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Why? More form-oriented doesn't = more accurate. You should know that by now. And you should know that you can't resort to altering your terminology to word-for word or more literal.
     
  20. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    The only one confused is you. John 3:16 is true. Every word of it.

    So you don't believe God can love everybody? Even sinners?
     
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