Featured Do The SDA See Ellen White As Modern Prophetess Then?

Can you be specific with your reference (bold, underlined) please? I would like book and page number with the exact quotation please.

 

You are saying that Ellen White was never a Christian her whole life, even before Miller and the Advent movement? Can you provide evidence of this please, as I would like to cite a few things also after you.

 

That's not how I see the history, I read of great apostasy to truth, and now nearly all succumbed, but as it is written, that the church appears to fall, but it does not fall.

 

I would like the specific references please, with book and page numbers and exact quotations please. I have never read any such thing as you are stating. Therefore, I would like to have the evidence before me, and all, please. This is your opportunity to demonstrate your case.

 

Des Ford's response it easily shown to be in error from Hebrews and Daniel, if you are interested in citing his material, and then consider the scripture itself. As for "Raymond F. Cottrell" (not "Contrill", as those who read this can see, persons who attack Seventh-day Adventists never seem to know their material, or source correctly and always get things so simple wrong). I base my position upon the Bible (KJB), just as this sermon and powerpoint also shows:



http://sdamaranathachurch.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Hide-Seek.pptx

Can you point to the place in either the video or powerpoint where Ellen G White is relied upon as the foundation? Please share the time indexes or page numbers. Thank you.

 

I assume this quotation is a reference given to show that sister White taught that Jesus (Son of God) is Michael. This was already agreed to in many places, never denied. Openly accepted, as it is the doctrine also found in the entire reformation and before (all the way unto Melito of Sardis). Yet, if so, that is not a very good quotation to show that, so let me give you a better one:

Spiritual Gifts, Volume 4a, by Ellen G. White.

"... [Page 58] Michael, or Christ, with the angels that buried Moses, came down from Heaven, after he had remained in the grave a short time, and resurrected him, and took him to Heaven.

As Christ and the angels approached the grave, Satan and his angels appeared at the grave, and were guarding the body of Moses, lest it should be removed. As Christ and his angels drew nigh, Satan resisted their approach, but was compelled, by the glory and power of Christ and his angels to fall back. Satan claimed the body of Moses, because of his one transgression; but Christ meekly referred him to his Father, saying, “The Lord rebuke thee.” Christ told Satan that he knew that Moses had humbly repented of this one wrong, and no stain rested upon his character, and his name in the heavenly book of records stood untarnished. Then Christ resurrected the body of Moses, which Satan had claimed. ..." [Page 58] - Spiritual Gifts, vol. 4a, Page 58 -- Ellen G. White Writings
​

Please use this quotation from now on, as it is more clear than the reference you gave. It is exact, with page number, book and link.

As for the doctrine as seen throughout history, see the following link - http://sdamaranathachurch.org/wp-co...essengers-of-the-LORD-the-Reformation-etc.pdf

 

I have a question for you. Who is "GW" that is responding please, so that I may contact them about their erroneous use of the quotation? Or have you copy pasted and accidentally left off the "E" for "EGW", from some website, and if so, which one please, and I will let you know whether I contacted them about their misuse of the reference (I have contacted many without reply from them), as it is taken out of context, entirely. Let me now demonstrate (again, as I have shown this citation to be out of context multiple times on this very forum).

Here is the quotation in full, and already responded to in 15 (so called) Bible Contradictions From Ellen G White Refuted And Debunked (which I have given several times on this forum now, see - "Private Interpretation" ; especially see point #4, reproduced here) - http://sdamaranathachurch.org/wp-co...le-Contradictions-from-Ellen-G.-White-SDA.pdf

"... Here is the actual context of Letter 32, 1899, as re-cited in the Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, Volume 5 (1956), page 1129:

“... (Matthew 27:54; 1 Timothy 3:16.) But although Christ's divine glory was for a time veiled and eclipsed by His assuming humanity, yet He did not cease to be God when He became man. The human did not take the place of the divine, nor the divine of the human. This is the mystery of godliness. The two expressions "human" and "divine" were, in Christ, closely and inseparably one, and yet they had a distinct individuality. Though Christ humbled Himself to become man, the Godhead was still His own. His deity could not be lost while He stood faithful and true to His loyalty. Surrounded with sorrow, suffering, and moral pollution, despised and rejected by the people to whom had been intrusted the oracles of heaven, Jesus could yet speak of Himself as the Son of man in heaven. He was ready to take once more His divine glory when His work on earth was done. {5BC 1129.3}

There were occasions when Jesus stood forth while in human flesh as the Son of God. Divinity flashed through humanity, and was seen by the scoffing priests and rulers. ...

...

Christ left His position in the heavenly courts, and came to this earth to live the life of human beings. This sacrifice He made in order to show that Satan's charge against God is false--that it is possible for man to obey the laws of God's kingdom. Equal with the Father, honored and adored by the angels, in our behalf Christ humbled Himself, and came to this earth to live a life of lowliness and poverty--to be a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. Yet the stamp of divinity was upon His humanity. He came as a divine Teacher, to uplift human beings, to increase their physical, mental, and spiritual efficiency. {5BC 1129.6}

There is no one who can explain the mystery of the incarnation of Christ. Yet we know that He came to this earth and lived as a man among men. The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty, yet Christ and the Father are one. The Deity did not sink under the agonizing torture of Calvary, yet it is nonetheless [1130] true that "God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." {5BC 1129.7} ...

... (Letter 32, 1899). {5BC 1130.2} ...” - Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, Volume 5 (1956), page 1129.7​

The author of the video has grossly misrepresented the citation (or plagiarized, without checking, thus inheriting another's blatant errors), by taking it out of context and not giving the ellipses, neither comparing one portion with the other, for, when sister White says, “... The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty, yet Christ and the Father are one. ...”, she is contrasting the differing persons of “the man Christ Jesus”, “Christ” with “the Lord God Almighty”, “the Father”.

If anyone faults her for that, then they will have to fault Daniel (and the angel Gabriel no less), who specifies the differing Persons of the Father and the Son, by saying “the Ancient of Days” (Father; Daniel 7:9,13,22) and “the Son of man” (Christ Jesus; Daniel 7:13). [P.S. One would also have to fault John in Revelation Chapter 4 & 5 as well, who specifies the difference between "him that sitteth upon the throne" (C. 5:13), "the Lord God Almighty" (C. 4:8) meaning the Father, and "the Lamb" (C. 5:6), "the Lion of the Tribe of Juda" (C. 5:5), meaning the Son.

Sister White elsewhere when speaking of Jesus only, says “Almighty”. See:

“... We need a deep insight into the nature of Christ and into the mystery of His love “that passeth knowledge.” [Ephesians 3:19.] We are to live in the warm, genial rays of the Sun of righteousness. Nothing but His loving compassion, His divine grace, His almighty power can enable us to baffle the relentless foe and subdue the opposition of the human heart. What is our strength?—The joy of the Lord. Let the melting love of Christ fill the heart, and we are softened and subdued, prepared to receive the power that He has for us. ...” - Manuscript 89, August 12, 1903, par 16.​

Again:

“... “I lay down My life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.” While as a member of the human family He was mortal, as God He was the fountain of life for the world. He could have withstood the advances of death, and refused to come under its dominion; but voluntarily He laid down His life, that He might bring life and immortality to light. ...” - The Desire of Ages (1898), page 484.1​

Again:

“... This same covenant was renewed to Abraham in the promise, “In thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.” Genesis 22:18. This promise pointed to Christ. So Abraham understood it (see Galatians 3:8, 16), and he trusted in Christ for the forgiveness of sins. It was this faith that was accounted unto him for righteousness. The covenant with Abraham also maintained the authority of God's law. The Lord [Jesus JEHOVAH] appeared unto Abraham, and said, “I am the Almighty God; walk before Me, and be thou perfect.” Genesis 17:1. ...” - Patriarchs and Prophets (1890), page 370.3​

#4 is debunked, again, for the umpteenth time in the past so many years ..."

Now the question to you is, Are you (Yeshua1) honest?

 

E.G. White prophesied the world would end in 1843, 1844, 1845 and 1851 : "Now time is almost finished, (1851) and what we have been 6 years in learning they will have to learn in months." (Early Writings, p.57). There's your "official" citation from HER writings.

Eternal hell is INDEED in Scripture ! You're proven wrong again !

Rev. 14:11And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.

Rev. 20:10 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

And there's NO SCRIPTURE supporting the "investigative judgment" false doctrine. If it aint in Scripture, it aint true !

Her physical feats can be attributed to epileptic seizures. As a formar navy corpsman & paramedic, I've seen more than one person suffering one. Staring w/o blinking, & superhuman strength are often exhibited during a seizure. I am 6'2, 235 lb. & have been slung across a room by a GIRL suffering a seizure ! She didn't remember doing it, & she wasn't really trying to harm me. I was trying to keep her from hitting her head on a floor.

No, EGW was no imbecile. She was a slick operator with a gift of demagoguery, propaganda, & deception. In short, she was a QUACK !

 

A medical question then "Dr." "Batman", if you will. Were those patients you speak of, ill persons, gracefully standing and/or walking about, having a conversation with persons, and were they still breathing (exhaling carbon-dioxide and inhaling oxygen, etc? Was the supernatural strength of their spasms able to control and hold objects, such as a Bible, over their heads for many minutes (upwards 30 minutes) and able to directly point to the passages therein, while reading verbatim therefrom, without looking?

Ellen G White was never in a 'fit', which brought actions of uncontrol, or rage, or spasms during her visions. She was always in control (submitted to the Holy Ghost), able to freely move about, in perfect peace and even form coherent sentences without breathing (ie she had no breath coming out of her mouth for periods, no lung or diaphram movement, up to 30 minutes or more).

Ellen G White, was able to lift a large family bible, over her head, for many minutes, and able to point to the passages, while reading verbatim therefrom without looking.

You are suggesting that the rock and head injury made her a special devious savant? In effect, the tragedy made her more intelligent, more deep of thought, and able to calculate to such degree as to deceive all those around her, including medical doctors and spiritualists who examined her? and that this increase of intelligence and brain power manifested some 7 years later and continued to be present unto her dying day, in 1915, many many years later?

 

Can you point to the historical document which shewed that Ellen G White (who was actually Ellen Harmon in 1843) "prophesied" the world would end in "1843, 1844"? I know she believed the calculations in Daniel 8:14, 9:24-27, etc and (wrongly) expected Jesus to return in those years. The mistake for 1843 was based upon the miscalculation of the present day calendar with the Biblical calendar, thus came 'the 7th month movement' which showed the correct year, 1844. Ellen Harmon had not even her first vision until December 1844, after the October 23 1844 date had passed.

Can you show the historical documentation that Ellen Harmon (became "White" in August 30, 1846 - Link) "prophesied" that the "end of the world" would be in "1845"? I know of no such documentation.

Can you show the historical documentation that Ellen G White "prophesied" that the "end of the world" would be in "1851"? I know of no such documentation.

The quotation you have provided, does not say anywhere that Ellen G White "prophesied" that "1851" would be "the end of the world". Please see the context of the quotation you have taken out of context, as already demonstrated in 7 (so called) False Predictions From Ellen G White Refuted And Debunked, point #4 - http://sdamaranathachurch.org/wp-co...lse-Predictions-From-Ellen-G.-White-–-SDA.pdf

 

Continued:

She is speaking about future events and the "they", not herself and those with her.

[Time Index: 5:46 – 6:50] Jesus was to return “In a few Months”

Source citation, Early Writings, page 64,67 (emphasis added)

“In a view given June 27, 1850, my accompanying angel said, “TIME IS ALMOST FINISHED. … Said the angel, “Get ready, get ready, get ready. ...” I saw that there was a great work to do for them and but LITTLE TIME in which to do it. … Then I saw that THE SEVEN LAST PLAGUES WERE SOON TO BE POURED OUT upon those who have no shelter ...” - Early Writings, page 64 (emphasis added)

“But NOW TIME IS ALMOST FINISHED, and what we have been years learning, they will have to learn in a FEW MONTHS. They will also have much to unlearn and much to learn again.” - Early Writings, page 67 (emphasis added)

Narrator then states [Time Index: 6:39 – 6:50]

(Off screen narration) “Well ...” (On screen narration) “She said this in 1850. It is now 2015, and there have been 1,980 months that have passed. This is not “a few months” but it IS another failed prediction.”

This error of the narrator stems, again, from not reading carefully enough the context of sister White's statements, which makes me wonder what else they also do to the other messengers of the Lord in scripture, even “wrest[ing]” (Psalms 56:5; 2 Peter 3:16) those to their own destruction.

Here is the Early Writings statement in its context, the whole chapter:

“... In a view given June 27, 1850, my accompanying angel said, "Time is almost finished. Do you reflect the lovely image of Jesus as you should?" Then I was pointed to the earth and saw that there would have to be a getting ready among those who have of late embraced the third angel's message. Said the angel, "Get ready, get ready, get ready. Ye will have to die a greater death to the world than ye have ever yet died." I saw that there was a great work to do for them and but little time in which to do it. (EW 64.1)

Then I saw that the seven last plagues were soon to be poured out upon those who have no shelter; yet the world regarded them no more than they would so many drops of water that were about to fall. I was then made capable of enduring the awful sight of the seven last plagues, the wrath of God. I saw that His anger was dreadful and terrible, and if He should stretch forth His hand, or lift it in anger, the inhabitants of the world would be as though they had never been, or would suffer from incurable sores and withering [page 64-65] plagues that would come upon them, and they would find no deliverance, but be destroyed by them. Terror seized me, and I fell upon my face before the angel and begged of him to cause the sight to be removed, to hide it from me, for it was too dreadful. Then I realized, as never before, the importance of searching the Word of God carefully, to know how to escape the plagues which that Word declares shall come on all the ungodly who shall worship the beast and his image and receive his mark in their foreheads or in their hands. It was a great wonder for me that any could transgress the law of God and tread down His holy Sabbath, when such awful threatenings and denunciations were against them. (EW 64.2)

The pope has changed the day of rest from the seventh to the first day. He has thought to change the very commandment that was given to cause man to remember his Creator. He has thought to change the greatest commandment in the decalogue and thus make himself equal with God, or even exalt himself above God. The Lord is unchangeable, therefore His law is immutable; but the pope has exalted himself above God, in seeking to change His immutable precepts of holiness, justice, and goodness. He has trampled underfoot God's sanctified day, and, on his own authority, put in its place one of the six laboring days. The whole nation has followed after the beast, and every week they rob God of His holy time. The pope has made a breach in the holy law of God, but I saw that the time had fully come for this breach to be made up by the people of God and the waste places built up. (EW 65.1)

I pleaded before the angel for God to save His people who had gone astray, to save them for His mercy's sake. When the plagues begin to fall, those who continue to break the holy Sabbath will not open their mouths to plead those excuses that they now make [page 65-66] to get rid of keeping it. Their mouths will be closed while the plagues are falling, and the great Lawgiver is requiring justice of those who have had His holy law in derision and have called it "a curse to man," "miserable," and "rickety." When such feel the iron grasp of this law taking hold of them, these expressions will appear before them in living characters, and they will then realize the sin of having that law in derision which the Word of God calls "holy, just, and good." (EW 65.2)

Then I was pointed to the glory of heaven, to the treasure laid up for the faithful. Everything was lovely and glorious. The angels would sing a lovely song, then they would cease singing and take their crowns from their heads and cast them glittering at the feet of the lovely Jesus, and with melodious voices cry, "Glory, Alleluia!" I joined with them in their songs of praise and honor to the Lamb, and every time I opened my mouth to praise Him, I felt an unutterable sense of the glory that surrounded me. It was a far more, an exceeding and eternal weight of glory. Said the angel, "The little remnant who love God and keep His commandments and are faithful to the end will enjoy this glory and ever be in the presence of Jesus and sing with the holy angels." (EW 66.1)

Then my eyes were taken from the glory, and I was pointed to the remnant on the earth. The angel said to them, "Will ye shun the seven last plagues? Will ye go to glory and enjoy all that God has prepared for those who love Him and are willing to suffer for His sake? If so, ye must die that ye may live. Get ready, get ready, get ready. Ye must have a greater preparation than ye now have, for the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate and to destroy the sinners thereof out of it. Sacrifice all to God. Lay all upon His altar--self, [page 66-67] property, and all, a living sacrifice. It will take all to enter glory. Lay up for yourselves treasure in heaven, where no thief can approach or rust corrupt. Ye must be partakers of Christ's sufferings here if ye would be partakers with Him of His glory hereafter." (EW 66.2)

Heaven will be cheap enough, if we obtain it through suffering. We must deny self all along the way, die to self daily, let Jesus alone appear, and keep His glory continually in view. I saw that those who of late have embraced the truth would have to know what it is to suffer for Christ's sake, that they would have trials to pass through that would be keen and cutting, in order that they may be purified and fitted through suffering to receive the seal of the living God, pass through the time of trouble, see the King in His beauty, and dwell in the presence of God and of pure, holy angels. (EW 67.1)

As I saw what we must be in order to inherit glory, and then saw how much Jesus had suffered to obtain for us so rich an inheritance, I prayed that we might be baptized into Christ's sufferings, that we might not shrink at trials, but bear them with patience and joy, knowing what Jesus had suffered that we through His poverty and sufferings might be made rich. Said the angel, "Deny self; ye must step fast." Some of us have had time to get the truth and to advance step by step, and every step we have taken has given us strength to take the next. But now time is almost finished, and what we have been years learning, they will have to learn in a few months. They will also have much to unlearn and much to learn again. Those who would not receive the mark of the beast and his image when the decree goes forth, must have decision now to say, Nay, we will not regard the institution of the beast. (EW 67.2) ...” - Early Writings, pages 64-67​

 

Continued:

The contrast is between the “we” (Adventists, later known as Seventh-day Adventists on the whole as a body from then to the end of time) who had already embraced the third Angels message (Revelation 14:9-12) when this statement was given, and with “those” others who were still to embrace it.

Notice the context of the latter “those”, or “they”, who would have to go through the trials of the mark of the beast, persecution time of trouble, and the seven last plagues. Events were already turning towards this, in the culmination of the Senator Blair (Sunday Law) Bill in AD 1888. If it had passed, then the final events would have occurred sooner, for even then, people were already being arrested (see The Two Republics by A. T. Jones, Appendix), yet it was merely the anti-type of the type of Cestias of the first siege of Jerusalem (AD 66). Events unfolded by a providence of God, yea, even, His mercy, so that more time was allowed for many to escape the coming destruction (as type in AD 70 under Titus), in the final siege. “[T]hose” who will embrace the final message to the world, will truly only have a “few short months” to absorb all, while there have been many who had had “years” learning what is to be done by God's grace through faith. The “great work” to be done, is the fullness of the reflection of the character of Christ Jesus before He comes, “finished”.

See Sea of Glass (Powerpoint) on the character required for entry to Heaven.

Notice, that neither sister White, nor the angel, said, “Time is finished.”, but said, “Time is almost finished”, and in the context of the last 6,000 years, the last 170 years is nothing next to such.

See also the previous context in Early Writings, leading up to these statements, for the “they” are the last generation of peoples, not sister White herself or those with her in her day, notice:

“ … The Lord has shown me repeatedly that it is contrary to the Bible to make any provision for our temporal wants in the time of trouble. I saw that if the saints had food laid up by them or in the field in the time of trouble, when sword, famine, and pestilence are in the land, it would be taken from them by violent hands and strangers would reap their fields. Then will be the time for us to trust wholly in God, and He will sustain us. ...” - Early Writings, page 56.2

“... Then they will be free in the time of trouble and have no clogs to weigh them down. …” - Early Writings, page 57

“... in the time of trouble it would come up before them ...” - Early Writings, page 57

“... for the time of trouble. Those only who have clean hands and pure hearts will stand in that trying time ...” - Early Writings, page 58​

Consider also how Paul the Apostle wrote, when using the word “we” (meaning 'us', Christians in the last days, not Paul himself, and so likewise sister White):

When Paul said, “we” in 1 Thessalonians 4:15,17, whom did he mean:

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.​

To fault sister White here, is to also fault Paul, Peter, Jude and John:

Romans 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

1 Corinthians 7:29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;

1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Jude 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.​

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.​

(The “short time” is the “last days”, the last 2,000 years of the great Cosmic work week.)

and even worse, they would have to fault Jesus Himself:

Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Mark 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

Luke 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.​

Finally, notice the statement by sister White on page 58 of Early Writings:

“... The Lord has shown me the danger of letting our minds be filled with worldly thoughts and cares. I saw that some minds are led away from present truth and a love of the Holy Bible by reading other exciting books; others are filled with perplexity and care for what they shall eat, drink, and wear. Some are looking too far off for the coming of the Lord. Time has continued a few years longer than they expected; therefore they think it may continue a few years more, and in this way their minds are being led from present truth, out after the world. In these things I saw great danger; for if the mind is filled with other things, present truth is shut out, and there is no place in our foreheads for the seal of the living God. I saw that the time for Jesus to be in the most holy place was nearly finished and that time can last but a very little longer. What leisure time we have should be spent in searching the Bible, which is to judge us in the last day.

My dear brethren and sisters, let the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ be in your minds continually and let them crowd out worldly thoughts and cares. When you lie down and when you rise up, let them be your meditation. Live and act wholly in reference to the coming of the Son of man. The sealing time is very short, and will soon be over. Now is the time, while the four angels are holding the four winds, to make our calling and election sure. ...” - Early Writings, page 58​

The danger was in the thinking that time wasn't short, in the over all scheme of things. The sealing time began in 1844.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.​

Some “men” do not understand “Time is almost finished” and “short”, etc with respect to God's long-suffering.

#4 is debunked, unless one seriously is going to assault the Apostles and elders for saying the same things, and then that person is no longer a bible believer, but a bible skeptic.

 

Jesus is NOT michael, simple as THAT, which is proven by Scripture, which you're trying to twist with some of EGW's garbage. Typical cult behavior.