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Do we need to have the Holy Ghost to be saved?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by ONENESS, Nov 21, 2002.

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  1. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    To which DHK replied quoting Romans and saying



    It appears to me that DHK did say that Romans teaches that we must have the Spirit to be saved.

    ~Lorelei    </font>[/QUOTE]He did Lorelei but that was after the fact that I asked the question.

    I understand that the question has been answered. Others have brought up various thoughts though and we have been addressing them. The question for DHK has been answered by DHK.

    Thanks Anyway.

    So how have you been. Given the board a break...hahah..

    Good to see you name back around.

    God bless

    What happened to Granny? Is she still out there in the grandstands?
     
    #21 ONENESS, Nov 22, 2002
  2. Lorelei

    Lorelei <img src ="http://www.amacominc.com/~lorelei/mgsm.

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    I am doing good, I have just found other things to occupy most of my time.

    Here is one of my favorite verses on the subject:

    ~Lorelei
     
    #22 Lorelei, Nov 22, 2002
  3. Mike McK

    Mike McK New Member

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    What you did was mention specific chapters and verses which supposedly support the heretical view that the three members of the Godhead are one person and not three distinct persons.

    You were proven wrong so, all of a sudden you want to switch threads?

    No. If you'd wanted to discuss it there, you would have brought it up there but you didn't. You brought it up here.

    What do you mean, "the way I want to discuss it"?

    You tried to misapply a chapter of God's word to represent a heretical teaching.

    I responded and pointed out that, not only does that chapter not support your claims, it refutes them outright.

    What's the problem?

    Maybe later. For now, I don't want to let your claims go unchallenged here for fear that there might be someone who sees them and is led into false teaching.
     
    #23 Mike McK, Nov 22, 2002
  4. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    What you did was mention specific chapters and verses which supposedly support the heretical view that the three members of the Godhead are one person and not three distinct persons.

    You were proven wrong so, all of a sudden you want to switch threads?

    No. If you'd wanted to discuss it there, you would have brought it up there but you didn't. You brought it up here.

    What do you mean, "the way I want to discuss it"?

    You tried to misapply a chapter of God's word to represent a heretical teaching.

    I responded and pointed out that, not only does that chapter not support your claims, it refutes them outright.

    What's the problem?

    Maybe later. For now, I don't want to let your claims go unchallenged here for fear that there might be someone who sees them and is led into false teaching.    </font>[/QUOTE]Did I miss something? Quit acting like a child. I asked a question, I got a "STRAIT ANSWER" from the Person that the question was directed to.

    No I mentioned chapters and verses that backed up what I beleive. If you dont like it thats cool. You dont have to respond.

    I was proven wrong? Did anyone prove me wrong? Did anyone here say that we did not need the Holy ghost to go to heaven? NO! They agreed with me that we needed the Holy Ghost. Thats what this was about.

    It was not here to strike a debate to see if God was one. I was not trying to debate when I posted those verses. I was just simply showing you that we need the SPirit Of Christ to Go to heaven.

    I dont need your pompous puffed up attitude on a friendly thread. You got me? If you wish to continue in on this discussion please feel free. But if you want to be Arrogant please excuse yourself from our discussion.

    If I am being mislead and you attitude is totally innocent please forgive me and I apologize.

    You dont want to let my claims go unchallenged? Dont worry they would never and never would yours. Although your pompous responses dont even deserve a reply I
    went ahead and endulged in doing so. So when ever you wish please feel free to visit "The Oneness Vs. The Trinty.
     
    #24 ONENESS, Nov 22, 2002
  5. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    #25 DHK, Nov 22, 2002
  6. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    This is what I dont understand DHK. Where do you guys get that I think things like "Paul does not refer to imself as an unsaved person". Did I hint to that? :confused:

    Im not saying this in a harsh way im really confused. If I have stated any thing it is that everyone that Paul is writeing to is saved.

    could you help me to understand where you are comeing from?

    God bless
     
    #26 ONENESS, Nov 23, 2002
  7. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Oneness, you are partially correct, and that is where you are confused.

    The book of Romans was written to the church at Rome. In that regard, yes, it was written to the saved.

    But why was it written? To instruct. In that regard, the plan of salvation is quite evident, as Paul was ensuring that they were teaching and practicing it correctly.
     
    #27 Don, Nov 23, 2002
  8. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    #28 DHK, Nov 23, 2002
  9. atestring

    atestring New Member

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    When we are saved we have the presence of the Holy Ghost and the work of the Holy Ghost in regeneration.
    There is another work of the Holy Ghost that we can experience. In Acts 2 these people were alerady saved.
    If Peter had died the night befroe Pentecost would he have gone to heaven or to Hell?
    In John 20 the disciples had arleady had Jesus breath on them and were told recieve ye the Holy Ghost. But Jesus told them to go to Jerusalem and tarry for the Promise of the Father.
    In Ephesus in Acts 19 saved people were ask Have you recieved the Holy ghost since you believed.
    This question was not ask to last people but people that were saved.

    Paul ws saved on the road to Demascus but God sent Annanias to him to pray for his sight and that he might be filled with the holy ghost.
    He was already saved on the road to Damascus and that is the reason that annanias refered to him as Brother saul.

    There is more than just a ticket out of hell and a ticket to heaven for the believer.

    there is an empowering of the Holy Spirit available to "Believers" that are hungry and will ask to be filled with the Holy spirit.
     
    #29 atestring, Nov 24, 2002
  10. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    This was at the end of the Old Testament dispensation and at the beginning of the Church Age. Penecost was the one event that marked the beginning of the Church Age. From this time forth all believers would be indwelt with the Holy Spirit, such as they never were before. It is not a salvational issue. It is the end of one dispensation and the beginning of another.

    When Jesus breathed on them the Holy Spirit, it was both symbolic and prophetic of that which was to come. For he had clearly told them that they were to wait in Jerusalem until they would be endued with power from on high. "After that the Holy Spirit is come upon you, ye shall be my witnesses..." (Acts 1:8)

    This question was asked to Old Testament saints who had never heard of the Holy Spirit, and had only heard of the baptism of John. They had believed on John, and repented unto John's repentance, but had they trusted Christ, and were they sealed by His Holy Spirit?

    And he was filled with the Holy Spirit. I am not against being filled with the Holy Spirit. We are commanded to be filled with the Holy Spirit.

    Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
    --The sense is to be continually filled with the Holy Spirit. It comes as a result of obedience to the Word of God. This is totally different than the Charismatic view of being "baptized in the Spirit."

    Every believer can be filled with the Holy Spirit, usually for the purpose of witnessing. But that does not take away from their salvation. It has nothing to do with salvation. It has to do with service. When the Holy Spirit enters the believer at the time when a person is saved, he is eternally indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and eternally saved.
    DHK
     
    #30 DHK, Nov 24, 2002
  11. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    DHK, I sorry i have to refute this. Baptism was so much more than a symbol.

    It was part of the New Birth. Acts 2:38 lets us know that baptism is for the remission of sins.

    It was more than a symbol b/c Johns desiciples had to get rebaptized in Acts 19.

    It was more than a symbol for the Conelius. He and his house hold were commanded to be baptized.

    Repentance does not come when one is baptized. Repentance is a seperate experience than baptism. We do Die at repentance. We are then buried with him at baptism. Two seperate experiences.

    God bless
     
    #31 ONENESS, Nov 24, 2002
  12. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    Hey guys why I am here, I want to take time out to ask you guys a favor.

    Listen although we do not agree on some issues I do believe that God listens to each and every one of us. And I know that he answers prayer.

    So what I would like to ask is for you guys to pray for me. And really if anyone will I dont mean play patty cake with Jesus either. I have a need in my life right now and I would God to move on that need.

    So would you guys please pray for me.

    Thank you and God bless
     
    #32 ONENESS, Nov 24, 2002
  13. atestring

    atestring New Member

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    Hey Oneness,
    I will pray for you that God will meet your needs.
    We have a high Priest that is touched with the feeling of our infirmities. Hallelujah!
    Be Blessed and watch he who is able to do exceedingly, abundantly , above all we can ask and exceedingly, abundantly, abave all we can think!!
    May god Bless and Refresh you,

    Atestring
     
    #33 atestring, Nov 24, 2002
  14. Lorelei

    Lorelei <img src ="http://www.amacominc.com/~lorelei/mgsm.

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    If baptism is for the remission of sins, then why didn't John's baptism of repentance work?

    Which leads to another question. How did those in the upper room receive the Holy Ghost without being baptized "in the name of Jesus" for the remission of sins?



    More than a symbol? Cornelius had ALREADY received the Holy Ghost when he was baptized! He even spoke with tongues, now how was that possible without the baptism for the remission of sins? How could the HOLY Spirit enter in if Cornelius sins had not been covered by the blood of Christ?

    Where does the Bible teach this? We are already dead in sin. Repentance doesn't lead to death, it leads to life.

    How do we die at repentance if we are already dead?

    ~Lorelei

    PS. I want you to know that I will be praying for God's will in the situation. God has taught me much this past year, through study, through prayer and through life. His ways are not always our ways and our wishes are not always his will. We can't demand that God do what we think is best and we can't expect God to work on our behalf if we are expecting him to do our will rather than his own. Yes, Psalm 37:4 says if we delight in the Lord he will give us the desires of our heart, but that desire will be Godly one, not a fleshly nor eathly one.

    Has God made my daughter physically whole? No. But God's will is somehow being done. People's lives are being touched and changed eternally because of her struggles. Can I understand or comprehend why she has to go through all she has? No. But I can trust in God that he has a puprose, and my only heart's desire and concern is for the spiritual health and well being of all those I love.

    I don't know what your need is, but I know that if you give it God with prayer and thanksgiving, not being anxious, God will provide the answer. It just may not be the answer you expect. Don't let the flesh get in the way of seeing what God has in store.

    Just sharing some things God has laid on my heart, I pray that you will find the answer that God has for you.
     
    #34 Lorelei, Nov 25, 2002
  15. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    ATTN ANYONE WHO POSTS ON THIS TRHEAD:

    I BROUGHT THIS TREAD UP TO SEE IF YOU BELIEVE ON MUST HAVE THE HOLY GHOST TO BE SAVED. I USED SOME SCRIPTURE TO SHOW PEOPLE THAT THE SPIRIT OF GOD AND THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST WERE THE SAME SPIRIT. AND THEN WENT ON TO SHOW YOU HOW ROMANS 8:9 TELLS US WE MUST HAVE THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST TO BE CONSIDERED HIS.

    THIS THREAD WAS NOT TO DEBATE THE ONENESS OF GOD. AND I KNOW WE HAVE STARTED TALKING ABOUT WATER BAPTISM NOW. THIS WAS NOT WHAT THIS THREAD WAS INTENDED FOR.

    I DONT WANT TO HAVE 2 TREADS OPEN TALKING ABOUT THE SAME THING. ITS HARD ENOUGH KEEPING UP WITH EVERYTHING ON ONE THREAD. SO IF THE SUBJECT IS ABOUT THE ONENESS OF GOD LETS TALK ABOUT IT THERE.

    WHO CARES IF WE TAKE IT TO ANOTHER THREAD? DOES ANYONE CARE? I HAVE POSTED "LETS TAKE IT TO THE ONENESS VS THE TRINITY" THREAD SO EVERYONE WOULD KNOW.

    I DID NOT EMAIL YOU IN SECRET. I COULD CARE LESS WHO KNOWS AND DOES NOT KNOW. AM I GOING TO HAVE TO START BURPING YOU TOO?

    LOOK ITS NOTHING TO ME IF YOU DONT WANT TO GO THERE. I'LL MOVE ON WITH OR WITHOUT YOU. MY WORLD IS NOT REVOLVING ON "WHERE YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING". IM SURE EVERYONE VISITS THAT TOPIC JUST AS MUCH AS THEY VISIT THIS ONE.

    MAYBE YOU AND MOST PEOPLE HERE AND 2000 YEARS OF ORTHODOXY DISAGREE WITH ME. CONSIDERING THAT YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE THAT HAS ALMOST 2000 YEARS OF LONGJEVITY FOLLOW A DOCTRINE THAT WAS ESTABLISHED AROUND 325 AD.

    I AM USING SCRIPTURE TO SUPPORT WHAT I AM TELLING YOU. I AM NOT TAKEING IT OUT OF CONTEXT. I HAVE GIVEN YOU PROOF. YOU HAVE NOT GIVEN ME ONE LITTLE VERSE OF SCRIPTURE TO SUPPORT YOUR THEORY. ACCEPT IT OR DONT. ITS NOT MY DOCTRINE THAT YOU ARE NOT ACCEPTING, ITS THE APOSTOLES. EVERYTHING I HAVE SHARED WITH YOU IS WHAT THE APOSTLES TAUGHT. AND THEY TAUGHT IT B/C JESUS TOLD THEM TO TEACH IT.

    AGAIN THIS IS NOT A DISCUSSION FOR THIS THREAD. I HAVE SAID ALL I WILL SAY ABOUT IT HERE. NOW IF YOU WANT TO DEBATE WETHER OR NOT WE NEED THE HOLY GHOST HERE, GO FOR IT. THATS WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT.

    SO SMOKEEATER. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT WE NEED THE HOLY GHOST TO BE SAVED?

    GOD BLESS

    [ November 25, 2002, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: ONENESS ]
     
    #35 ONENESS, Nov 25, 2002
  16. Mike McK

    Mike McK New Member

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    #36 Mike McK, Nov 25, 2002
  17. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    And how are we saved?
     
    #37 ONENESS, Nov 25, 2002
  18. Mike McK

    Mike McK New Member

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    #38 Mike McK, Nov 25, 2002
  19. Charlie T

    Charlie T New Member

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    John 6:44-45
    "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent me draws Him; and I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the prophets, "AND THEY SHALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to me."

    Jesus taught that no one comes to God without God drawing him. I think that this is the role of the Holy Spirit working at the direction of the Father, but perhaps it is the Father. Regardless, if man is not drawn, man is not saved.

    Charie
     
    #39 Charlie T, Nov 25, 2002
  20. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    No. We recieve the Holy Spirit as a result of our being saved.

    Mike[/QB][/QUOTE]

    Ok thats fine, I dont like ping pong either :D but if you have a question concerning the Oneness of God and what I believe on THAT issue than please address it in the appropriate thread.

    You are the one that suggested I keep it where it started. So I brought it back over here where it started hopeing it would help you. Obvisiouly not.

    What does that have to do with anything. I could say what ever I wanted here as well. Who do i need to hold me accountable? That thread is open just like this one. Anyone is free to come and go as they please. Its not a cult there SmokeEater.

    This is nothing personal. Its just a VERY SIMPLErequest. If you cant simply do what I am asking in my thread than you can help your self "Back Button" and see your way out of here.

    You are the one thats acting like a child. I just asked you if you want to debate the oneness of God to please take it somewhere else. Its not a big deal... Really, its not. No one else has ever had a problem with it.

    So if you want to act like a child, I dont see why you would mind being treated like one. This is not a personal attack. So there goes your rebuttle. I'm not picking on you, I'm not mad at you, I'm just saying..."If you dont like the way things are being done in this thread excuse yourself. It will save both of us the trouble.

     
    #40 ONENESS, Nov 25, 2002
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