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Featured Do we worship the same God?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by MB, Sep 5, 2019.

  1. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    My God is a Loving God and He desires Love from those who He created to love Him. To read some of the Calvinist post I have began to wonder if we are writing about the same God. You know the great creator of the world and the Cosmos and man.
    Does the Calvinist God Love man or does He hate most men? The reason I would like to know is the Calvinism description of God is not love, purity, or divine. Your picture of the real God does not match what is in scripture. You tell us that God works all things after the council of His own will and then you paint God as being both evil and good. The creator of sin. Viciously condemning those he never gave chance to. You claim He created them to murder. Then you claim it's all for the glory of God? You are making God out to be like your selves, Lost Sinners
    Do you really believe you know anything about the real God? Not only this why would anyone worship such a tyrant as you so willingly make Him out to be?
    [Snip]The Bible says" God is LOVE" Not evil hatred.
    [Snip].
    MB
     
    #1 MB, Sep 5, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 5, 2019
  2. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    From man's point of view both Calvinism and non Calvinism equally make God a monster. Thankfully we are not His judge and He is always just.
     
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  3. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Non-Calvinism is a rather broad statement. I guess that covers all that are not Calvinist. I disagree that I make God out to be a monster
    MB
     
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  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I disagree with cals emphatically. However, I think it is rude, unnecessary, and ungodly to suggest that cals worship a different God. Shame on you.
     
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  5. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    In the same sense you think Calvinism makes God a monster, your belief (if anything mainstream) does the same. ie. Those who never heard the Gospel.
     
  6. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    So you must not believe God manifested in men the knowledge of God.
    Rom. 1:17-20.
    MB
     
  7. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    "Do we worship the same God?"

    To me, that's more than a bit complicated.

    I know that long before I saw election, predestination, calling, and so forth from Scripture, I believed on Jesus Christ from my heart and confessed with my mouth...and my faith and desire to tell people, when they ask ( 1 Peter 3:15 ) if I am a Christian, has only gotten stronger over the years, not weaker.

    My desire to abstain not only from the appearance of sin, but even the un-noticed sins that I gave into in private, has also only gotten stronger over the years.
    When long ago I was nervous about confessing Christ to unbelievers, now I don't bat an eyelash...even when they make fun of me.

    When I consider that what I knew about the Lord and salvation basically amounted to "Arminianism" as a newborn believer 41 years ago...
    Changed into "Traditionalism" for the next 25 years after that...
    Became "4-point Calvinism" ( essentially "Amyraldianism", where I couldn't decide whether Scripture detailed Christ's sacrifice for only His sheep, or for all of mankind ) for 13 of the last 16 years...and finally settled on "5 Point Calvinism" for the past few years now...

    ....I know that my beliefs and understanding about God have changed drastically from when I first heard His word from a pulpit in 1978 at the age of 12.

    With all that said,

    I can say that it is my firm belief that "my God" was still the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob...but I wasn't clear on who He was, what He did to save me, and how much He loves me until fairly recently.



    My sincere hope is, that everyone here will come to see the same truths that I have from God's precious word.:)
     
    #7 Dave Gilbert, Sep 5, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
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  8. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Glad you edited this, Dave. The first draft seemed way too rough with its faulty conclusion. I highlighted in red what stood out to me most. Bottom line, God doesn't change, we do.

    I would suggest that understanding just how much God loves us is a never ending process. Thankfully, his love doesn't depend on our understanding, though our enjoyment of it does.
     
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  9. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    My opinion about my conclusions hasn't really changed.

    My attitude about how I'm treating people with my tongue or my keyboard?
    That is changing.;)

    Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor...or something like that.
    The Lord puts it this way:

    " In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin: but he that refraineth his lips [is] wise." ( Proverbs 10:19 )

    Other passages that I would do well to heed:

    Proverbs 15:1
    Proverbs 17:28.
    Ecclesiastes 3:7
    1 Peter 3:10.
    1 Peter 3:15-17.
    James 1:19.
    James 3:5

    I need to remember that I'm here to edify, and learn...not to stomp on anyone.
    Sometimes being blatantly honest can be seen as stomping, and I'd really rather avoid the appearance of evil.:)
     
    #9 Dave Gilbert, Sep 5, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
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  10. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    The knowledge of God but not the knowledge of Christ necessary for salvation
     
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  11. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Yet the Bible still says they are with out excuse;

    Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
    God's Word is always right. I do not doubt it.
    MB
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We say that God is love, AND allso Holy, so he does exercise judgement upon sinners and his wrath, correct?
     
  13. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    You apparently assume that those who put an emphasis on maintaining the importance of the nature of God’s love would not believe He would also be a God who exercises judgment and wrath. Why would you discount your opponent’s perspective of the nature of God’s love to also include understanding His nature judgment and wrath based on his commitment to upholding this divine attribute (love)? Your question seems quite telling concerning the differences between the views of the nature of God…
     
  14. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    Yup, "not having the knowledge necessary" and "being understood so they are without excuse" are completely opposite. I'll go with God's word.
     
  15. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Wrong! God has given them ample warnings and opportunities to repent and be saved. Men actually choose to go to hell because they don't want to repent and they love sin more than God.
    MB
     
  16. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Pardon me, God is one. God is His own Son and His own holy Spirit. I believe if we cry out to God and ask He will provide. Sinner or saint. God provides for me why not you and everyone else.
    You may judge me for my boldness. Yet it does not effect me. Everywhere there are judges. You are no different than any of them. Remember Christ was not gentile with the Pharisee's because of their hypocrisy. I work to be Like Christ don't you?
    MB
     
    #16 MB, Sep 7, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2019
  17. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    I worship a God of Love, Grace and Mercy!... He didn't have to save anyone and he would have been just... His Son Jesus Christ could have come down from the cross and said they are not worth it... AND WE AREN'T!... Does not God have the right to save who he wants?... In Christ the will of the Father was carried out... I worship a God where Heaven is going to be full of the redeemed, exactly as God purposed it... None added and none lost, according to the counsel of the Godhead... THAT'S MY GOD... Brother Glen:)

    Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

    7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

    7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

    7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
     
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  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Not discounting, but do see many non Cals do tend to place emphasis on love before all other of His attributes!
     
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  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    All of us are boren bound for Hell, correct?
     
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  20. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    You make a false merging of The Godhead. No man cometh to The Father except by The Son.
     
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