Do you believe in ecumenism?

Depends on what you mean by ecumenism. If you mean as it is being practiced by the ELCA and the ECUSA, then I would have to say no.

If you mean the general practice of the so called Prayer Events such as the Oprah event after 9/11 and the Katrina event in New Orleans this past summer than I would have to give a resounding No.

If you mean the striving towards complete unity in doctrine and practice then I would say yes.

 

I do because God does -- Christ has but one bride.

 

The problem with ecumenism is the Catholic church. The so-called pope wants to head up the union.

 

My denomination's (LCMS) idea of being ecumenical is having talks with ELCA. :laugh: :smilewinkgrin:

 

Now this was the funniest post i've seen in a while... :laugh: :laugh:

 

Jfox1, you forgot about having talks with WELS. :laugh:

Seriously, we have participated in several ecumenical discussions, but have frequently been asked to refrain from coming again because we kept ruining the love fest by insisting on such negligable details such as the definition of justification.

 

Interesting phrasing; "Do you believe in ecumenism?"

I don't believe in ecumenism, I believe in God, and understand that God's Son desires the Chruch to be one in the same manner as Jesus and His Father are one.

Fear of Catholicism and Evil Liberals continues to be true ecumenism's undoing, sadly.

 

Any person who accepts the ecumenical creeds is "Christian."

 

Bluntly, whether or not we like it, we are already `ecumenized.' Allow me to explain.

We all share one Lord and one Savior, are added by God to one community of Jesus' followers per Acts 2:47, and are adopted into one family. There will be a major ecumenical meeting in Heaven, but there will be no bickering.

On this earth, we have more in common than we want to acknowledge. Hebrews 10:24-5

The purpose of church meetings is for Christians to encourage each other to live Christian lives of love and doing good deeds. This purpose is stated before the command to not abandon church assembly, and the purpose is again mentioned afterward. That purpose repeated: encourage each other to live Christian lives of love and doing good deeds.

Children know this intrinsically. A child does not really know the differences between the churches except that they are different -- but still churches. It is `grown-ups' who dis-educate them on this. Children hear `go out and obey God and follow Jesus and do what is good and be nice’ at nearly every church congregation -- and this is exactly what church congregations are for per Hebrews 10:24-5.

I do not see why issues that are relevant only when churches are assembled need to be such a major issue away from church assembly time. We should discuss them, but not waste the Lord's resources sending people to meetings to bicker and compromise with each other about matters that really only affect life in congregation meetings to be able to get along. Rather, let us just take the wisdom of children, and emphasize what we have in common as church congregations: our purpose. We are more similar than different.

 

The teachings of the church inform more than assemblies they inform and shape our everyday lives. In addition, defending the purity of God's message is very important, enough so that the Apostles took time to settle matters of doctrine and that they took time to write various churches to ensure sound teaching and practice.

Ecumenical councils are not about silly stuff like the color of carpet or whether or not the pastor should wear robes, they are about the important things such as the teachings concerning Holy Communion, Baptism, Salvation, the Person of Christ, and the Trinity.

 

I agree about that, but my everday life is not about baptism, communion, or other such matters, nor intricate details of salvation doctrine because salvation itself is simple from our end, and everything we need to know and believe about the Lord Jesus Christ Son of God is stated in Scripture. My Christian life is about going out and serving the Lord by doing what is good to others, and I suspect the same is true of you whether you realize it or not because I suspect you are accustomed to it.

In Hebrews 10:24-5, encouraging such activity is the purpose of church congregations even meeting. Titus 3:8-9 has “I desire that thou affirm confidently, to the end that they who have believed God may be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men: but shun foolish questionings, and genealogies, and strifes, and fightings about law; for they are unprofitable” (ASV). The matters you are discussing are by no means "silly," but in our church congregations, good works are to come first per Scripture.

In most of the contexts of 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, and Titus, `sound doctrine' referred to lifestyle -- 1 Timothy 1:3-10 listed off a number of sins of action of entirely non-religious nature that are contrary to "sound doctrine."

Titus 3:10-11 finishes what was quoted: "A factious man after a first and second admonition refuse; knowing that such a one is perverted, and sinneth, being self-condemned” (ASV). Those of us who insist upon neglecting the good works purpose of church congregation meetings and instead insist upon dividing the church in controversies over academic questions fit this bill.

I am by no means saying that proper views on baptism, communion, church governance, etc. are not important. Churches should investigate and discuss such differences of opinion vigorously. I do believe, however, that churches need to prioritize these according to Scripture, and such matters are `second chair' to pursuing good works. Church congregations should focus on this priority and put it first, and when we do, we will see just how alike we are and how united we can be.

 

No problem, only I hope you won't mind if we adjust polity? Oh, and make immersion less of a life-and-death issue?

 

I strongly disagree for these are the very things that shape and influence our lives. Not a day goes by that I do not rejoice that I was claimed by God in Baptism, nor a week where I do not seek the rejuvination offered in Holy Communion. Without these things good works would not happen, therefore they are exceedingly important to consider. If it were not for the fact that I can rely on the promises of God in Baptism, I could not go out and face the trials of the world. These things, you wish to seperate from daily life, form the foundation of how we approach daily life. It is because of the teachings concerning sin and redemption that I do not see people needing condemning for their sins instead I see sinners in need of a savior. After checking your profile, I can see why you do not think that these things affect your every day life. Growing up in churches which deny God's promises concerning the Sacraments will do that to you. Just as an illustration of teaching influencing every day life take the churches generally Fundie in background which place a great deal of stress of seperation in the world, they have set themselves up as a subculture in their effort to not be tainted by the world emphasizing participating only in things which have the label Christian.

Again, I must disagree. Teaching and good works should be on equal footing and not one over the other. To elevate one over the other is a mistake many people make, which is why you have churches that have great teaching and no works and vice versa.

 

I would have to say one universal Lutheran Church. Can't abide by the Baptist idea that Baptism and Holy Communion are works of Man.

 

It is my regeneration by faith that energizes me to do good works of Christian service -- Ephesians 2:8-10 “for by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For |in Christ Jesus, God made us new people| for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them” (ESV|ICB|ESV).

Yes; I believe only the written Word of God to have the ultimate authority for how I conduct my spiritual life. I believe it when it says that it is enough for a servant of God at 2 Timothy 3:17. I accept no later speculations which people claim to have come from God, such as Sacramental theology.

After checking your profile, I could understand why such things seem to be so important to you. To reach the compensated pulpit of a denomination which retained Sacramental theology in its split from Roman Catholicism, it would have been an important aspect of your church life as you grew in the Lord with commendable earnestness.

My motivation for Christian service in daily life is much simpler. Acts 16:31a “‘Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved’” (NBV, NLT). I live my life remembering that Jesus is Lord and that I need to live my life accordingly. Jesus Christ as Lord, rather than ceremonies, is my central focus in motivating me to live my life as a Christian.

Fundamentalists are known for opposing Christian unity, preferring such non-biblical things such as "Doctrine of Separation" in which we refuse to cooperate in service to the Lord with other Christians because of disagreement, but it is I who is taking a stand in favor of unity, and you are not. Whatever stereotype you are trying to apply, I do not fit.

Not according to the passages I cited in post #16.

Hebrews 10:24-5 “and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, |not giving up| our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the day drawing near” (NASB|TNIV|NASB) -- this is the very purpose for church congregations even meeting. Churches which have "great teaching" but neglect this are failing in their divinely appointed purpose.

Titus 3:8-11 "I desire that thou affirm confidently, to the end that they who have believed God may be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men: but shun foolish questionings, and genealogies, and strifes, and fightings about law; for they are unprofitable. A factious man after a first and second admonition refuse; knowing that such a one is perverted, and sinneth, being self-condemned" (ASV).
--we are told what our priorities are to be: "good works." Controversies that distract from this are to be shunned.