Do you seperate Bus kids from others?

[IfbReformer]

As someone whose wife was saved through a bus ministry of a baptist church bus ministries are especially important to me.
I used to be involved in them up until a few years ago and it has become more difficult as I have 5 children under the age of 9 and its hard to expect my wife to take care of them all on Sunday mornings.

My wife came from a lower middle class family whose parents were not involved in church. They did want to send their kids on a bus to church and so when a baptist bus ministry came canvasing their neighborhood they jumped at the chance.

My wife started going to this church through the bus ministry and after about a year of going to the church she came to trust in Christ as her Savior.

My wife and her younger brother and sister faithfully came on the bus for a many years. She and her siblings were well behaved, especially for bus kids. Some of the bus kids they had behavioral problems with and the Pastors would go and visit the parents and let them know if the behavior did not improve they would not be picked up anymore by the bus.

In more recent years my wife's youngest sister(her parents adopted two other children) started going to this same church on the bus route. I believe there were about 30 to 40 bus kids each Sunday. And then there were 30 to 40 kids whose parents were members or regular attenders. Because the church had some problems with about 10 of the bus kids(not only with behavior but also because of how they dressed(imodestly for some) they decided to seperate all the bus kids from the "regular church kids"

Now the bus kids have their own special service which is a combination of Sunday school and junior church and they are picked up later than when Sunday school starts and are taken home before the service ends.

Guess why? So the bus kids won't be seen coming or going by the rest of the church as they might cause a disburbance or may be a bad influence on the regular church kids.

So what do you all think of this? I will say my wife was infuriated when she heard and her little sister was so hurt that she stopped going to that church altogether. We are trying to get her to come to church with us at another church we are going to. But this church really left a bad taste in her mouth.

IFBReformer

 

[mcdirector]

What I have to say is, if this is how the church feels about the bus ministry, then they need to stop it.

If they are not willing to put the time and energy and people into the education, training, and loving of the program and children then it needs to not be a part of the church.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I would not want to pass judgement on a local church, but I personally cannot see separating bus kids and church kids for any reason.

 

[mcdirector]

You are right Roger.

I was unduly harsh. My apologies.

 

[James_Newman]

What I have to say is, if this is how the church feels about the bus ministry, then they need to stop it.

If they are not willing to put the time and energy and people into the education, training, and loving of the program and children then it needs to not be a part of the church.

We moved our bus ministry to Saturday, and the kids get us all to themselves.

 

[mcdirector]

We moved our bus ministry to Saturday, and the kids get us all to themselves.

Now, that's a great plan!

 

[abcgrad94]

I believe it was Gen. Robert E. Lee who was asked why he knelt at a church altar next to a slave and Gen. Lee replied, "The ground is level at the foot of the cross."

If the bus kids are causing problems, it's up to the church to staff enough workers to control them. Anyone can bus in huge numbers of kids, but you have to have enough helpers to work with them. Otherwise, things get out of control. Treating the kids like lepers won't encourage their parents to attend. Maybe the church would be better off mentoring the kids' parents one-on-one and forming real relationships with them instead of just providing a babysitting service.

Please don't blast me for saying this. I can count on one hand the number of "bus kids" I've known who have actually grow up and continued a true Christian walk after their teen years. Most have fallen by the wayside because Christianity wasn't enforced at home.

 

[av1611jim]

I believe it was Gen. Robert E. Lee who was asked why he knelt at a church altar next to a slave and Gen. Lee replied, "The ground is level at the foot of the cross."

If the bus kids are causing problems, it's up to the church to staff enough workers to control them. Anyone can bus in huge numbers of kids, but you have to have enough helpers to work with them. Otherwise, things get out of control. Treating the kids like lepers won't encourage their parents to attend. Maybe the church would be better off mentoring the kids' parents one-on-one and forming real relationships with them instead of just providing a babysitting service.

Please don't blast me for saying this. I can count on one hand the number of "bus kids" I've known who have actually grow up and continued a true Christian walk after their teen years. Most have fallen by the wayside because Christianity wasn't enforced at home.

I'll assume that those few who did stick by the stuff are sure grateful today, huh? On that basis, wasn't it worth it?

 

[abcgrad94]

Of course, Jim. My mother was one of those!

All I'm saying is I think we'd catch more fish and be even more effective if we focused better on reaching the parents.

 

[TaterTot]

I am so glad God uses bus minitries!! I was a bus kid, and who would have ever dreamed I would be where I am today. I love the bus ministry, and our church has one, but there probably will always be those who see them as "bus kids".

I know that for all the kids we have bused in over the years, very few do take root and stay in church, but I pray they will eventually find their way back. Too often, home environment wins. But we have to plant the seeds just in case!!

 

[IfbReformer]

I'll assume that those few who did stick by the stuff are sure grateful today, huh? On that basis, wasn't it worth it?

Amen! Bus ministries are great even if it is true that a small percentage of the Kids actually get saved and stay in the church. My wife is the only one out her siblings that is still in church so I know this to be the case.

However - for those who are big door to door soulwinners here? How many people who open the door to you are actually responsive? I would guess its about the same percentage as how many bus kids are actually responsive.

Personally I think the bus ministry is even more effective than door to door soul winning. As I have seen personally parents come to know Christ by the kindness that was shown their children at church through the bus ministry.

IFBReformer

 

[IfbReformer]

I would not want to pass judgement on a local church, but I personally cannot see separating bus kids and church kids for any reason.

If something is wrong, then its wrong. Its not a matter of passing judgment. Is it wrong to segregate your bus kids from regular church kids? In my opinion the answer is yes.

Its one thing if a child is acting up, we all understand that the routy kids must be dealt with and in some extremes the church bus stops picking them up.

Its quite another that because some bus kids are bad, you treat all bus kids the same and segregate them from the regular church population only because they come on the bus.

IFBReformer

 

[IfbReformer]

We moved our bus ministry to Saturday, and the kids get us all to themselves.

May I ask why you moved your bus ministry to Saturday instead of Sunday?

What advantages do you see in isolating the bus kids from the normal church services on Sunday?

IFBReformer

 

[D28guy]

Shame on that church. (the opening post)

"1 My brethren, do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with partiality.

2 For if there should come into your assembly a man with gold rings, in fine apparel, and there should also come in a poor man in filthy clothes,

3 and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say to him, “You sit here in a good place,” and say to the poor man, “You stand there,” or, “Sit here at my footstool,”

4 have you not shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?

5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?

6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you and drag you into the courts?

7 Do they not blaspheme that noble name by which you are called?

8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,”[a] you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors>

The last 2 churchs I was a part of that had bus ministries dealt with the bus kids in the biblical way. Those kids were welcomed with open arms into the regular worship services and regular teaching classes. And you know what? Without a whole lot of prompting those kids started behaving better and using better language. Some of them were born again.

If some folks in a church are "offended" by the bus kids, then in my opinion its those folks who need to be dealt with, not the kids.

Mike

 

[av1611jim]

Shame on that church. (the opening post)



The last 2 churchs I was a part of that had bus ministries dealt with the bus kids in the biblical way. Those kids were welcomed with open arms into the regular worship services and regular teaching classes. And you know what? Without a whole lot of prompting those kids started behaving better and using better language. Some of them were born again.

If some folks in a church are "offended" by the bus kids, then in my opinion its those folks who need to be dealt with, not the kids.

Mike

I agree with you, although my current church does segregate them. But they also put on functions just FOR them to make them feel extra special. They don't get much of that at home.
We used to include them in everything but stopped doing this as our ministry (in all areas) got larger and larger. It just became impractical I am told. In addition, there seemed at that time to be not a few who were rotten eggs and purposefully disrupted services. Yet, instead of kick 'em out completely, we segregated them and have seen lots of lasting fruit. Whole families getting saved and attending faithfully on their own.

So, I guess there are good points on both sides of this issue. If the bus ministry is small then by all means include them. It is an easy task to corner the trouble makers when the group is small. But when your group of bus kids start numbering a couple hundred or so like ours is, you gotta think differently.

 

[saturneptune]

I have driven the van for years for children whose parents will not take them, and older members. The very idea of seperating them is an outrage. So the rest of the congregation will not see them???
You have to be patient and give the kids a break. The love and guidance they get at church probably far exceeds what they get at home all week. Any leader who practices such a policy should be fired. If you cannot handle the kids, stay out of the ministry.

 

[EdSutton]

I agree with you, although my current church does segregate them. But they also put on functions just FOR them to make them feel extra special. They don't get much of that at home.
We used to include them in everything but stopped doing this as our ministry (in all areas) got larger and larger. It just became impractical I am told. In addition, there seemed at that time to be not a few who were rotten eggs and purposefully disrupted services. Yet, instead of kick 'em out completely, we segregated them and have seen lots of lasting fruit. Whole families getting saved and attending faithfully on their own.

So, I guess there are good points on both sides of this issue. If the bus ministry is small then by all means include them. It is an easy task to corner the trouble makers when the group is small. But when your group of bus kids start numbering a couple hundred or so like ours is, you gotta think differently.

Nothing directed at you av1611jim, but as the "Church Lady" would say, "Isn't that special!"

But I guess we can justify anything, when we want, if we look hard enough. I do wonder, however, how this stacks up with James' idea about "respect of persons"?

Need to keep down some potential disruptions? Recruit some adults and/or responsible later teens and strategically place them in the crowd. In fact, I knew of one well-sized teen, who was prone to get himself involved in minor disturbances of services, once. An adult 'recruited' him to help keep things down. Not only did it work with the rest of them, he took it seriously, and quickly became a good 'enforcer' merely because of his imposing physical presence, and a calming, no longer disruptive, force there.

Ed

 

[James_Newman]

May I ask why you moved your bus ministry to Saturday instead of Sunday?

What advantages do you see in isolating the bus kids from the normal church services on Sunday?

IFBReformer

We have a small bus ministry with one bus, and it takes almost an hour to pick up the kids. It was not working well with our Sunday schedule. And we didn't have the bus kids in our regular church service anyway, they would go to their own class after we had praise and worship. Most of the church kids can hardly sit through an hour sermon, you can imagine how hard it would be for the bus kids. So we moved it so Sundays would be more relaxed for the bus ministry folks and the kids seem to like coming on Saturdays just fine.

 

[av1611jim]

As I pointed out;
keeping the kids within the congregation may work just fine when you are talking about a SMALL ministry.

We have three 44 passenger school busses. Each bus makes TWO trips each Sunday morning. And each bus is FULL! Do the math. It is just not practical to attempt to 'ride herd' on that many kids (either unchurched OR churched) and still keep the decorum of the service in any kind of order. Our sanctuary seats 1200. Put over 250 unsaved and unruly kids among that crowd and you have lost all sense of order.

For our own kids we have "kids church" just like many of you folks do. We also have "kids church" for the bus kids. We are NOT talking about kids who are perfect little angels. Also, as was pointed out by my brother; even the "church kids" have trouble sitting through an hour long sermon. Most of these bus kids come from broken homes and have many discipline problems. The Lord has blessed this arrangement very well.

Treat them in a "biblical" way? FYI: it was common practice in early times to SEPERATE the children from the adults. So don't give me any pious holier-than-thou platitudes about being 'biblical'.

Paul said to let all things be done decently and in order. All means ALL. When the order is disrupted, then something must be done to restore order. Frankly, as I said, it has worked quite well for us for we have seen much lasting fruit. WHOLE FAMILIES coming to Christ and being FAITHFUL to church on their OWN!!!

One may "dis" us for our practice but you may not "dis" the results. God IS blessing the ministry. We are looking at the possibility of getting ANOTHER bus and adding ANOTHER route.

Go figure...huh?

 

[D28guy]

av1611jim,

I said...

"

The last 2 churchs I was a part of that had bus ministries dealt with the bus kids in the biblical way. Those kids were welcomed with open arms into the regular worship services and regular teaching classes. And you know what? Without a whole lot of prompting those kids started behaving better and using better language. Some of them were born again.

If some folks in a church are "offended" by the bus kids, then in my opinion its those folks who need to be dealt with, not the kids."

And you said...

"Treat them in a "biblical" way? FYI: it was common practice in early times to SEPERATE the children from the adults.

"

I dont have a problem with seperating kids from adults for bible study, etc, after everyone is together for the worship service. But in the original post it was posted that the "bus" kids were completly seperated from the "regular" services, and even arrived after everyone else was inside, and left before everyone came out. In light of the scriptues that I posted from James, I see that as being exceedingly distasteful to me, and the way we did it...welcoming the "bus" kids with open arms as if they were the most important people there...as being the more biblical way.

So don't give me any pious holier-than-thou platitudes about being 'biblical'."

I had no "pious holier than thou" intentions whatsoever as I posted what I posted. Just my view of it.

"Paul said to let all things be done decently and in order. All means ALL. When the order is disrupted, then something must be done to restore order."

Why not WAIT for order to be disrupted..and deal with it then...rather than isolate the "unwashed" from the services (or even from sight) before giving them a chance. In our services the kids did just fine.

"Frankly, as I said, it has worked quite well for us for we have seen much lasting fruit. WHOLE FAMILIES coming to Christ and being FAITHFUL to church on their OWN!!!"

Praise God!

"One may "dis" us for our practice but you may not "dis" the results. God IS blessing the ministry. We are looking at the possibility of getting ANOTHER bus and adding ANOTHER route."

Praise the Lord!

One thing I dont understand. The original post that I responded to was posted by IFBReformer. Why are you taking it so personally? I wasnt responding to a post of yours, but rather that other one. And they seemed to agree with me, as it was posted the the posters wife was "infuriated" by the action of that church.

Mike