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Featured Doctrinal View

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Jul 10, 2020.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Of God and the Holy Trinity – One God in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19

    Of God's Decree- God before creation chose to bring about creation for the purpose of creating mankind for His glory, Isaiah 43:7

    Of Creation –In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, Genesis 1:1

    Of Divine Providence – God made everything and sustains everything and brings about the conditions useful for His purpose of creation, including altering the course of human events by intervention, Colossians 1:17; Deuteronomy 30:19.

    Of the Fall of Man, of Sin, and of the punishment thereof – Adam volitionally sinned, knowing God said not to eat of the fruit of the tree of good and evil. This resulted in Adam being separated from God, i.e. kicked out of the garden, and his corruption, i.e. his eyes were opened. Genesis 3:7; 17-24

    Of God's Covenant – God’s eternal covenant was to provide eternal life for those of His choosing, based on crediting their faith as righteousness, keeping His covenant of love. James 2:5

    Of Christ the Mediator – Jesus is our mediator, our high priest who sacrificed Himself, becoming the propitiation for the whole world, interceding for those given to Him, taking whatever was against us out of the way. Hebrews 9:11-15

    Of Free Will – We make plans but God directs our steps, thus God allows us autonomous thoughts and actions, but only so far as He allows. He can and does intervene and restrict our options, such as hardening hearts to cause some to continue to reject Christ for a time. Proverbs 16:9, Romans 11:7

    Of Effectual Calling – I deny the doctrine of Irresistible Grace, men of flesh, unless hardened, can hear and understand and respond to the milk of the gospel, 1 Corinthians 2:14 – 3:3.

    Of Justification – refers to being made “right” with God, thus our “sin burden” is removed. This occurs when we are spiritually placed in Christ, and undergo the circumcision of Christ, Romans 5:18, Colossians 2:11.

    Of Adoption – Our adoption refers to being made physical children of God when we bodily resurrected at Christ’s second coming, Romans 8:23.

    Of Sanctification – Salvation is presented in scripture as having three phrases, Positional Sanctification referring to when we are set apart in Christ 2 Thessalonians 2:13; Progressive Sanctification, referring to our life after being put in Christ where we strive to become more Christ like, 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8, and Ultimate Sanctification, our Adoption at His second coming, 1 Thessalonians 5:23.

    Of Saving Faith - Faith God credits as righteousness, being from the heart, fully committed and devoted to Christ, having more to do with our love of Christ than believing the right doctrines, Romans 4:4-5; 24.

    Of Repentance unto Life and Salvation – God grants repentance via His revelatory grace, i.e. providing us with an understanding of God’s perfection and our sins and their consequences. When we repent we give glory to God. 2 Timothy 2:24-26; Revelation 16:9.

    Of Good Works – Before salvation, all our “good works” are as filthy rags to God, but upon being born anew, created for good works, we can earn eternal rewards if we build upon the foundation of Christ according to His will, Isaiah 64:6; Ephesians 2:10.

    Of the Perseverance of the Saints – Once born anew, we cannot undo. 1 Peter 1:3-5.

    Of the Assurance of Grace and Salvation – If we have been born anew, our life changes, and we exhibit the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Thus, when we meet for communion, we are to examine ourselves to see if we are of the faith, and if our heart does not convict us, we are to take the bread and the wine in remembrance of our Savior, 2 Corinthians 13:5-6.

    Of the Law of God – Under the Old Covenant, under the Law of Moses, the Law acted as a tutor, leading us to a knowledge of our sins and our need of a Savior, Galatians 3:24. Once born again, under the Law of Christ (also Called the Law of Liberty) we are to strive to follow Christ, and keep His commandments, 1 Corinthians 9:21. Primarily, we are to love God with all our heart, mind and soul, and love our neighbors as ourselves, Matthew 22:36-40.

    Of the Gospel and the Extent of Grace thereof – The only unpardonable sin is to reject Christ. Other than that, God will forgive your sins and remember them no more forever. Ephesians 1:7

    Of Christian Liberty and Liberty of Conscience – As ambassadors of Christ we are to be His witness to the world, thus being careful to not be a stumbling block to others. Romans 14:20-23

    Of Religious Worship and the Sabbath Day – The Law of Moses has gone away, and with it the requirement to keep the Sabbath, but we are to set apart a time for worship and reflection, and study and meditation, and Sundays are used by many Christians. 2 Corinthians 3:2-11

    Of Lawful Oaths and Vows – We are not to swear by God or anything else. Matthew 5:34

    Of the Civil Magistrate – God has established governance, and so we are to submit provided that in doing so would not result in violating a clear command of God. In the military the concept is known as following “lawful” orders. No massacring women and children because the officer said so. Romans 13:1-2

    Of Marriage - Marriage is the union of a man and a woman, both committed to Christ. Matthew 19:4-6

    Of the Church – Church refers to either the local temporal assembly of professing believers, made up of both wheat and tares, or to the general assembly, the bride and body of Christ, made up of all who have been born again. Hebrews 12:23, Ephesians 5:23

    Of the Communion of Saints – When we, believers, gather together we are to remember our indebtedness to Christ who gave his body, broken for us, and his blood, shed for us, and to examine ourselves to see if we are of the faith. 1 Corinthians 11:28

    Of Baptism – Christ using the agency of the Holy Spirit, baptizes us into the body of Christ spiritually, and then seals us in Christ with the Holy Spirit. Christ commanded we illustrate this spiritual baptism, and make a public declaration of our faith in Christ, thus we are to be water baptized and water baptize all who profess faith in Christ . Romans 6:3, Ephesians 1:13

    Of the State of Man after Death, and of the Resurrection of the Dead – When we physically die, our spirit/soul departs and goes either to heaven to be present with the Lord, or to Hades to suffer torment and await the resurrection of the dead. At the great white throne judgment, all the spirits in Hades will be reunited with physical bodies and be gathered for judgment. There names, not being found in the Lamb’s book of life, they are put into the Lake of Fire where they suffer and die the second death. Luke 16:19-31

    Of the Last Judgment – Those of us whose spirits go to be with the Lord, are also united with our glorified physical bodies at Christ’s second coming, and we are judged, with Christ awarding rewards for faithful service if we have built upon the foundation of Christ with material of eternal value, i.e. helped save lives. 1 Thessalonians 5:23, 1 Corinthians 3:10-15
     
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  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Of God and the Holy Trinity – One God in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19

    Not three gods or one god manifesting three avatars, but one God existing as three eternal (no beginning or end) persons revealed to us in scripture as the Trinity Yahweh. The most commonly held bogus views of God claim (1) Jesus is not eternally God the Son, or (2) deny the personhood of the Holy Spirit. But all three are revealed in scripture as persons possessing intellect, will, and emotion, the sine qua non of personhood.
     
  3. MartyF

    MartyF Well-Known Member

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    Are you wanting comments or just sharing?
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Sadly, the usual comments run the gamut from "taint so" to "you do not know what you are talking about." In other words, simply disparagement, rather than an alternate doctrinal statement for one or more of the specified views.
     
  5. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    I think the benefit of writing one’s doctrinal beliefs down is that it forces one to examine their own beliefs.

    Yet for some it becomes an end in itself: once written, never to change.
    I’ve sat through a few ordination examinations and sometimes pity the prospect because they think that they must tow the line and believe in a particularly “orthodox” manner. They (generally) are not allowed to say, “I don’t really have a complete handle on this or that.”

    I have changed so many of my (what I thought were fundamental) beliefs and have learned that the stances I thought were firmly based were not as solid as I one believed.

    My prejudice is against those that have once studied a doctrine and believe they know it all and can rest from ever learning anything more about it.

    Keep writing your doctrinal beliefs down Van, but examine them regularly and hold them up against those that believe differently and listen to why they believe differently.

    Rob
     
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  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    When I came to this board, years ago, I had hoped to build a network of fellow bible students who would share and discuss with each other our views of scripture. But as Deacon addressed, many posters simply want to defend their prior beliefs, and find fault with differing views.
     
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  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Not just one doctrine here.
     
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    What happens some doctrines are affected by some other doctrines held. So an argument can go around in circles.
     
  9. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I will only say that I have never known anyone defend his prior beliefs half as tenaciously as you, often in the face of overwhelming Biblical evidence to the contrary.
     
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  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Once again, disparagement devoid of doctrine.
     
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  11. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    @Van
    I agree with many of your doctrinal statements except for the following:

    Of God's decree - God before creation chose to create man for His glory ( Romans 11:36, Colossians 1:16 ), and in the process to take out of the nations a people for His namesake ( Psalms 100:3, Isaiah 43:6-7, Ephesians 2:10 ).
    Of God's Covenant - God's eternal covenant was to provide eternal life, which is to know Him and His Son ( John 17:2 ), to those of His choosing ( Psalms 65:4, John 6:37-44, John 6:64-65, Acts of the Apostles 2:37, Acts of the Apostles 13:48, Romans 8:28-30, Ephesians 1:4-12, 1 Thessalonians 1:4, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 ), based on the good pleasure of His will ( Ephesians 1:5, Ephesians 1:11 ). He credits our faith as righteousness ( Romans 4:1-9, Romans 4:14-25 ), but our faith is also the gift of God ( Ephesians 2:8-9 ) and even the privilege to believe is a work of God ( John 6:29 ) given to us in the behalf of Jesus Christ ( Philippians 1:29 ). Therefore, we as believers have nothing to stand on except His mercy and grace alone ( Titus 3:5-7 ) for our forgiveness of sins and our belief on His Son's work on our behalf ( Romans 4:25, Romans 5:1-2, Romans 5:15-21, Colossians 2:13-14 ).
    Of Free Will - We make plans, but the Lord directs our steps ( Proverbs 16:1, Proverbs 16:9 ). His will is performed above and beyond ours ( Job 42:2, Psalms 33:11, psalms 115:3, Psalms 135:6, Isaiah 14:27, Daniel 4:35, Romans 9:19-20,). Thus God allows us autonomous thoughts and actions, but those thoughts and actions are governed by our corrupt nature, which is evidenced by our continuous love of sin and hatred of God and His ways ( Psalms 10:4 -11, Psalms 14:1-3, Psalms 53:1-3, Romans 1:18-31, Romans 3:10-18, John 3:19-20 ). Our will is therefore dead-set against God from birth ( Psalms 58:3 ) and favors sin and unrighteousness. He can and does harden hearts ( Romans 9:14-18 ), but those hearts are already hardened against Him.
    Of Effectual Calling - I affirm the so-called doctrine of "Irresistible Grace" and hold that men of flesh, unless their hearts ( the seat of their love and affection ) are softened and set free through the new birth ( Acts of the Apostles 16:14 ), can hear the words of the Gospel, but are ultimately unwilling to listen to them ( John 8:43-47, 1 Corinthians 1:18, 1 Corinthians 2:6-16 ) and will not believe them. In addition, unless their hearts are enlightened by the power of the Holy Spirit ( Ephesians 1:18 ), they are kept in thrall by the power of Satan, who hides the Gospel from the lost and blinds the minds of them that believe not, lest the Gospel should shine unto them ( 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 ).

    ( Continued )
     
    #11 Dave G, Jul 16, 2020
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  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Either the distinctions given are without a difference, or the bogus doctrines of Calvinism have been claimed. However every one of them (TULI) are precluded by scripture.
     
  13. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Of Justification - Refers to being made "right" with God, thus our sin burden was removed and placed on Christ ( Isaiah 53:4-8, Colossians 2:13-14 ) and we, as believers, were reconciled to God by the death of His Son ( Romans 5:10 ) at the cross, not when we believed and were sealed by the Holy Ghost ( Ephesians 1:13 ). We as believers were spiritually and physically placed in Christ when we believed and we undergo the circumcision of Christ, but were chosen to that placing before the foundation of the world ( Ephesians 1:4 ).
    Of Adoption - Our adoption comes in two phases. The first "phase" occurs when we are called by the Gospel and indwelt by the Holy Spirit, who is the "earnest" or down-payment of our inheritance ( Ephesians 1:13. In this first "phase" we start to "become" or resemble ( John 1:12 ) the spiritual children of God when we are regenerated ( Romans 8:1-17, James 1:18, 1 John 3:1-3 ) or experience the new birth. We are new creatures in Christ, at the heart level ( 2 Corinthians 5:17 ).The spirit of God within us confirms that we are now the sons of God ( Romans 8:14-16 ). During the second "phase", we receive our glorified bodies and the adoption becomes complete ( Romans 8:18-25, 2 Corinthians 5:1-7, Ephesians 4:30, Colossians 3:4, 1 John 3:2 ).
    Of "Saving" Faith - God credits His gift of faith ( Ephesians 2:8 ) as righteousness. This gift, which was authored and finished ( perfected ) by His Son ( Hebrews 12:2 ) and which is the evidence of His work within us ( Hebrews 11:1 ) does not determine who is saved and who is not, but is only an indicator of God having placed His favor on us as His elect. This faith is from the heart ( which is a new heart ), given to us by the Lord ( Ezekiel 11:19, Ezekiel 36:26 ), and is fully committed and devoted to Christ. Believing the right doctrines does not determine our destiny, but is reflective of our being His sheep. He has given to us a Teacher who will show us all things ( 1 Corinthians 2:6-16, 1 John 2:20-27 ) and lead us into all truth ( John 16:13 ) and, while we start out as babes in Christ, through much study of His word we go from milk to meat ( 1 Peter 2:2, 2 Timothy 2:15, Hebrews 5:14 ).

    ( To be continued )
     
    #13 Dave G, Jul 16, 2020
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  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    More bogus Calvinist assertions precluded by scripture.

    After God puts us into Christ, believers undergo the circumcision of Christ, the washing of regeneration which results in our "new creation" made holy, blameless and perfect.

    Calvinists pathetically try to redefine "adoption" which refers to our future bodily redemption at Christ's second coming as also referring to our new birth in Christ. Utter nonsense. They try this abuse of truth to be able to claim our salvation was predestined. as I said, pathetic.

    Saving faith is our faith when and if God credits it as righteousness. This is really not hard to grasp.
     
  15. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Continued.
    Repentance Unto Life - God grants repentance via His revelatory grace ( Matthew 11:27, Matthew 13:10-11, Luke 24:45, Acts of the Apostles 5:31, Acts of the Apostles 11:18, 2 Timothy 2:25 ), i.e. providing His children, whom He has given that gift of faith to, with an understanding of God's perfection and our sins and their consequences through the Law ( Romans 3:22-23, Romans 7:14-25, Romans 10:4, Galatians 3:24-25 ). He also reveals to us our need of a Savior through His word. When we repent and give glory to God, it shows His miraculous work in us as the recipients of His grace, which will be performed until the day of His Son's coming ( Philippians 1:6 ).
    Of the Perseverance of the Saints - " All who are chosen by God ( Psalms 65:4, Romans 8:28-30, Ephesians 1:4-11, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 ), redeemed by Christ ( Psalms 111:9, Romans 5:10, 1 Corinthians 1:30, Galatians 1:4, Galatians 3:13, Ephesians 1:7, Colossians 1:14, 1 Peter 1:18-19 ), and given faith by the Spirit ( Ephesians 2:8 ) are eternally saved ( John 3:36, John 5:24, John 6:37-39, John 10:28-29 ). They are kept in faith by the power of Almighty God ( 1 Peter 1:5 ) and thus persevere to the end ( Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Luke 21:19, 1 John 4:4, 1 John 5:4 )."
    Of the Assurance of Grace and Salvation - If we have been born again our life changes ( 2 Corinthians 5:17 ). We begin to exhibit the fruit of the Holy Spirit ( Galatians 5:22-23 ), but growth takes time ( 1 Corinthians 1:1-3, 1 Peter 2:2, Hebrews 5:11-14 ), and fruit does not appear overnight. The assurance of our salvation is the Holy Spirit of God ( Romans 8:16 ), who comforts us in all our trials and tribulations ( 2 Corinthians 1:3-5 ) and there are observable evidences of His having saved us ( 1 John 5:1-13 ).
    Of The Gospel and the Extent of Grace - The Gospel is the message of salvation, and is to be preached to all men indiscriminately ( Mark 16:15-16, Luke 24:46-47, Acts of the Apostles 1:8 ). However, the extent of that grace in the salvation of souls is as far as God has determined it should be...to His elect, the "whosoever believeth" ( John 3:16-21, Romans 9:14-18, Colossians 3:12, 1 Corinthians 1:18, 1 Corinthians 2:14, 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 ). All sins are forgiven His children, even their rejecting Christ, and were all placed upon Him at the cross ( Colossians 2:13-14 ). God will no more remember their sins ( Psalms 103:12, Isaiah 43:25, Jeremiah 31:34, Micah 7:18-19, Romans 11:27, Ephesians 1:7, Hebrews 8:12 ).
     
    #15 Dave G, Jul 16, 2020
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  16. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Sadly, Van, you make disparaging comments here without taking into account your complaining that others do it to you:
    In my estimation you have a problem in that you not only complain that your views are being disparaged, but as I see it, you turn right around and do the same things to others when they post differing views.
    Rather than simply replying graciously but firmly according to your convictions and understanding of the Scriptures, you resort to comments like the above.

    This is hypocritical in behavior, sir.
    I gave you alternate doctrinal statements for one or more of the specified views, and your comments do not reflect an absence of ridicule and disparagement.
    May I encourage you to do as 2 Timothy 2:24-25 states?

    I in turn will not resort to making baseless accusations in your direction...
    Not because I expect you to render honor for honor, but because the Lord expects me to do that, regardless of whether or not those who oppose my views do so.




    May God bless you greatly in the coming days.
     
    #16 Dave G, Jul 16, 2020
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  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Once saved, always saved
    And behold the Calvinist fiction that future believers were placed in Christ at the cross.
    On and on they copy and paste false doctrine.
     
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Did I say my views were being disparaged or I was being personally disparaged. Besides ad hominems, misrepresentation of opponents in another behavior of Calvinists.

    Calvinism cannot be defended logically or scripture ally, so strawman arguments, ad hominems, and misrepresentations are found in every post.
     
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  19. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Van

    Why do you clearly have disdain for the Word of God.

    Let truth be truth man

    You clearly have a bias against letting the WOG speak for itself.

    When I was struggling w the Bible, I always stayed the position of scripture being true and that God would open my heart to the WOG

    You have no ground to stand upon for most of what you profess. Instead of Isogeting passages, you need to:
    1. Understand them in their context proper hermaneutic
    2. Allow Scripture to actually mean what it says and understand it in totality. Embrace the WOG AS THE WOG


    The Word is good man even to the saving of the soul
     
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  20. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you did.
    Right here:
    I gave you an alternating view and made no ridiculous or disparaging comments in your direction.
    Nevertheless, it appears to me that you've proceeded to make those same style of comments towards me and my views.

    Are you not able to see this?
    Would it help if I ran through your posts above again?
    Shall we go to other threads where you complain about being attacked, but don't seem to feel the need to stop attacking others?

    Van, I pray to God that He shows you what your conduct is to others that you disagree with.
    In the meantime, I will make every effort to be mindful of my conduct towards those who disagree with me.

    Again ( and if I have not stated it to you before ), I have no personal ill will towards you, and I wish you well, even though we disagree with what the Scriptures say on many subjects.:)
     
    #20 Dave G, Jul 16, 2020
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