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Featured Does a Multitude of Modern English Bible Versions Promote a Violation of 1 Cor 1:10

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by JD731, Nov 6, 2023.

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  1. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    You have not said what you think that means. Perhaps you misunderstand or misinterpret what that could mean. You have not demonstrated that your understanding of it is the only possible and sound one. One possibility is that it could be an example of personification.

    E. W. Bullinger defined personification as "a figure by which things are represented or spoken of as persons; or, by which we attribute intelligence, by words or actions, to inanimate objects or abstract ideas" (Figures of Speech, p. 861).
    For example, Bullinger noted that in 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 that "human actions are attributed to charity" (p. 869).

    If the word of God is alive or living in the sense that you may imply, the word of God could possibly reproduce itself without any need for Bible translators. If it is alive in whatever sense that you may claim, perhaps the word of God could protect itself and prevent Bible translators from misunderstanding and misinterpreting it.
     
  2. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    The KJV is the only thing you disagree with and attack. You do not think there is any danger in anything else worth warning anyone about. Therefore your silence is acceptance and the only thing to avoid is KJV only.

    Do you realize that you never glorify the word of the Lord like the Thessalonians did. Your posts are always negative and what not to believe. It is never about what one should believe. There is a storm cloud over your comments.


    Acts 1 thru 7 the apostles preached to Jews only, first in Jerusalem like he said, and then in Judaea.

    Jesus said to the apostles to preach in Samaria
    Ac 8:25 And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.

    Jesus said to preach in all the world.

    Ac 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
    Ac 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
    Ac 13:49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

    Why did the gentiles glorify the word of the Lord? It was because the apostles told what the word of the Lord had commanded them to do. Here is the command to them toward a hopeless segment of the world:
    47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
    The word of the Lord is a "He." Don't miss this.

    Ac 15:35 Paul also and Barnabas continued in Antioch, teaching and preaching the word of the Lord, with many others also.
    Ac 15:36 And some days after Paul said unto Barnabas, Let us go again and visit our brethren in every city where we have preached the word of the Lord, and see how they do.
    Ac 16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
    Ac 19:10 And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.
    1Th 1:8 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.
    1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    2Th 3:1 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have [free] course, and be glorified, even as [it is] with you:
    1Pe 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

    The word of the Lord given after the Jews had rejected the salvation of God is a new thing. It is now preached to the gentiles.

    Lu 14:15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.
    16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
    17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
    18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
    19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
    20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
    21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
    22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
    23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
    24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

    Gentiles had never been bidden to the supper and it is no wonder they glorified the word of the Lord for his command that they should hear and be saved. I, a gentile, glorify the word of the Lord and thank you Lord for saving me.
     
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  3. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    That is not the way of the Lord. Men have free will and they can oppose the Lord if they choose to. They are accountable for their actions or there would not be a judgement.
     
  4. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Not true. I do not attack the KJV. I love the KJV and accept it as what it actually is. My aim is to present the truth concerning the Bible translation [the KJV] that I read. It is human, non-scriptural claims for the KJV that I soundly object to. I have not objected to anyone reading the KJV and even considering it the best English Bible. I have not objected to believers teaching and preaching from the KJV.

    I soundly and scripturally object when non-true or non-scriptural exclusive only claims are made for the KJV or when opinions and traditions of men concerning it are taught as being a doctrine of God when they are not. I search the Scriptures to see whether the things taught by KJV-only teachers are actually taught in it (Acts 17:11).

    Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside

    the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups, and many other such things ye do. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition (Mark 7:7-9)

    Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition (Matthew 15:6b)


    But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men (Matthew 15:9)

    Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? (Matthew 15:3b)


    Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men (Col. 2:8a)

    Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using; after the commandments and doctrines of men? (Col. 2:20-22)

    Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth (Titus 1:14)

    Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge (1 Cor. 14:29)

    We ought to obey God rather than men (Acts 5:29b)

    Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye (Acts 4:19b)

    One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. (Romans 14:5)

    and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty (2 Corinthians 3:17b)

    And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts (Psalm 119:45)

    Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. (Galatians 5:1)
     
    #164 Logos1560, Nov 20, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2023
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  5. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
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    All day 24/7. I told you the man is obsessed.
     
  6. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

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    In other words, you don't like the lies of KJVOnly challenged. You prefer to stay in the dark on this issue.
     
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  7. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
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    .

    Lol... Not at all. I just find him very weird and wondered if anybody else did. After all, someone who has no life other than the subject makes me feel sad for him. Also if you go back over the many years he's posted on this subject, you'll find he's posting nothing new. So how much longer does he need to repeat the same things over and over again? Apparently you find nothing wrong so I'll let you continue in your support of him. I have no problem whatsoever with anybody else posting whatever they want because everyone else who posts on the subject doesn't make it their life's work 24/7. If you don't find that strange, well then carry on.
     
    #167 Baptist4life, Nov 21, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2023
  8. Mikoo

    Mikoo Active Member

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    I thank you for what you do in combating the divisive and destructive view of KJVOism.
     
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  9. Mikoo

    Mikoo Active Member

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    I am safe because of the mercy of God and His grace that He bestowed on me.
    Are you safe because of the Bible you read?
     
  10. Mikoo

    Mikoo Active Member

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    It's because he is combatting the same old divisive and destructive views of KJVOism. IMHO
     
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  11. Mikoo

    Mikoo Active Member

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    Seems YOU are obsessed with the man. IMO
     
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  12. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    1 Samuel 27:10 [been a roving--1560 Geneva, 1602 Bishops] [same Hebrew, 1 Sam. 27:8--invaded; 1 Sam. 30:14--made an invasion]

    made a raid [NKJV] (1901 ASV)

    made an inroad (1911 TCE) (1853 Boothroyd)

    made an invasion (1842 Bernard)

    made a rode (1675, 1679, 1681, 1709, 1713, 1715, 1720, 1722, 1737, 1743, 1747, 1753, 1754, 1755, 1758, 1760, 1762, 1765, 1768, 1774 Oxford) [1629, 1635, 1638, 1648, 1683, 1743, 1747, 1756, 1760, 1761, 1767 Cambridge] {1611, 1614, 1616, 1617, 1626, 1630, 1631, 1633, 1634, 1640, 1644, 1648, 1650, 1652, 1655, 1657, 1660, 1672, 1674, 1684, 1698, 1703, 1706, 1711, 1712, 1730, 1735, 1743, 1747, 1750, 1759, 1760, 1764, 1767, 1768 London} (1755 Oxon) (1637, 1638, 1715, 1716, 1722, 1751, 1760, 1766, 1769 Edinburgh) (1722, 1743, 1762 Dublin) (1645 Dutch) (1696 MP) (1746 Leipzig) (1774 Fortescu) (1776 Birmingham) (1782 Aitken) (1790 MH) (1804 Gower)

    made a road (1769 Oxford, SRB) [1762, 1769 Cambridge, DKJB] {1761 London}
     
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  13. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
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    Which in my opinion, is much ado about nothing. That ship sailed a long time ago. It's called beating a dead horse.
     
    #173 Baptist4life, Nov 21, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2023
  14. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    New books are still being printed advocating KJV-only teaching, and many of the older ones are still being reprinted and read.

    Many pastors are still teaching KJV-only opinions and traditions of men as supposedly being a doctrine of God or Bible doctrine. More young and new believers are being deceived by non-true and non-scriptural exclusive only claims for the KJV and by misleading and incorrect KJV-only accusations against other English Bibles.
     
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  15. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    Division is not a bad thing. It is commanded by Jesus Christ.

    Ro 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
    18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
    19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.
    20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

    Deceiving? By magic and miracles and visions? No, with good words and fair speeches.

    Spoken in Romans under the theme "the gospel of God."
     
  16. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    What words in the KJV, if believed literally, would condemn the believer and how does literally believing what God says dishonor God?

    Ro 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

    There are several men on this forum who do not believe this verse as it is written and many of them carry new modern translations. But I believe these words as they are written and in the context of those, who in this world, have been proven to be the ungodly in the previous 4 chapters leading up to this conclusion by the apostle Paul. The ungodly are identified as those who have been born into the family of Adam. They become ungodly because they have no power against sin, who the text says is a sovereign over the sons of Adam. [Ro 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord].

    Would you condemn me for believing this because it is written in the KJV Bible? Take a look at A through L from BibleGateway.com and ask yourself if making many Bibles is really so one can understand the scriptures better. The men that I am speaking of here, the Mormons, the Russellites, the Calvinists and all others who fit themselves into an elite group who alone Christ died for are not helped by these versions below. Many of them honor the context, but not all. In your view, who is the most guilty, those who do not accept the atonement made for Adam's race, who are weak and without the strength to save themselves from the penalty of sin (death) or the person who believes the words of the KJV?

    KJ21
    For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
    ASV
    For while we were yet weak, in due season Christ died for the ungodly.
    AMP
    While we were still helpless [powerless to provide for our salvation], at the right time Christ died [as a substitute] for the ungodly.
    AMPC
    While we were yet in weakness [powerless to help ourselves], at the fitting time Christ died for (in behalf of) the ungodly.
    BRG
    For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
    CSB
    For while we were still helpless, at the right time, Christ died for the ungodly.
    CEB
    While we were still weak, at the right moment, Christ died for ungodly people.
    CJB
    For while we were still helpless, at the right time, the Messiah died on behalf of ungodly people.
    CEV
    Christ died for us at a time when we were helpless and sinful.
    DARBY
    for we being still without strength, in [the] due time Christ has died for [the] ungodly.
    DLNT
    For while we were still being weak, yet at the right-time, Christ died for ungodly ones.
    DRA
    For why did Christ, when as yet we were weak, according to the time, die for the ungodly?
    ERV
    Christ died for us when we were unable to help ourselves. We were living against God, but at just the right time Christ died for us.
    EHV
    For at the appointed time, while we were still helpless, Christ died for the ungodly.
    ESV
    For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
    ESVUK
    For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
    EXB
    [L For] When we were ·unable to help ourselves [L still helpless/weak], at the ·right [or appointed] time, Christ died for ·us sinners [L the ungodly/wicked].
    GNV
    For Christ, when we were yet of no strength, at his time died for the ungodly.
    GW
    Look at it this way: At the right time, while we were still helpless, Christ died for ungodly people.
    GNT
    For when we were still helpless, Christ died for the wicked at the time that God chose.
    HCSB
    For while we were still helpless, at the appointed moment, Christ died for the ungodly.
    ICB
    Christ died for us while we were still weak. We were living against God, but at the right time, Christ died for us.
    ISV
    For at just the right time, while we were still powerless, the Messiah died for the ungodly.
    PHILLIPS
    And we can see that it was while we were powerless to help ourselves that Christ died for sinful men. In human experience it is a rare thing for one man to give his life for another, even if the latter be a good man, though there have been a few who have had the courage to do it. Yet the proof of God’s amazing love is this: that it was while we were sinners that Christ died for us.
    JUB
    ¶ For the Christ, when we were yet weak, in his time died for the ungodly.
    KJV
    For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
    AKJV
    For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
    LSB
    For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
    LEB
    For while we were still helpless, yet at the proper time Christ died for the ungodly.
     
    #176 JD731, Nov 21, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2023
  17. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    You did not discuss nor answer what I actually stated, but instead you try to create a strawman diversion with your question. I did not assert that it is the words in the KJV itself that would usually deceive believers. There are some cases of episcopal bias in the KJV that can mislead readers, but that is not what I brought up in the post you quoted. Readers can also read present-day meanings into some archaic words in the KJV that were used with a very different meaning in that day so that they misunderstand and misinterpret some verses.

    My point concerns the fact that KJV-only advocates add to the Scriptures their human KJV-only opinions or read their KJV-only opinions into verses that do not actually state them, and then they make exclusive only claims for the KJV that are not true. Leading arguments for a KJV-only view involve use of fallacies such as begging the question and special pleading as unproven premises are assumed to be true when they are not actually true. The KJV itself does not teach typical non-scriptural KJV-only teaching.

    What I accurately pointed out is the fact that some believers can be and are being deceived by non-true and non-scriptural exclusive only claims for the KJV and by misleading and incorrect KJV-only accusations against other English Bibles.

    The Scriptures acknowledge that professed believers or those who have faith can be deceived or can even deceive themselves (1 John 1:8, James 1:22, James 1:26, 1 Cor. 10:12, Gal. 6:3, Eph. 5:6, Col. 2:4, Rom. 16:18). The Lord Jesus and the apostle John warned believers of the possibility of being deceived by man (Matt. 24:4, Mark 13:5, 1 John 3:7). The cunning craftiness and sleight of men can deceive and mislead believers (Eph. 4:14).
     
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  18. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    The safeguard for apostasy and false doctrine is not in a man like you who obviously feels like he is chosen of God to deal with this one subject exclusively and address what you have determined is a problem, that is that people actually believe the words they read, but it is in the local church where there is a pastor and deacons who are apt to teach. These pastors are instructed to study to show themselves approved of God and to rightly divide the word of truth. I do not see a ministry like yours anywhere in the scriptures. All your proofs for your position is what other men say or have said. You do not have a biblical argument that exalts the Lord and his word and your books you sell on the market on this one subject enters in to churches and undermines the pastors in many cases.

    I remember what the evangelist Paul said and it is different from you.

    Ac 20:26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
    27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

    I cannot remember you attempting to teach anything that is not related to the negative side of your story. I gave you some of what I have learned about the nature of the words of God according to Jesus Christ in John 6:63 where he said his words were spirit and life and that they must be in one to give life, or to quicken someone and you ignored that. I have asked you for the biblical charge to the church or para church organizations to translate the scriptures and you have not produced anything.

    Maybe you think you are more righteous than KJ bible believers and they are deceived but you are not and cannot be.
     
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  19. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    It appears that JD731 has wandered away from the purpose of the thread…

    (Which was that the multitude of Bible versions is against the passage in 1 Corinthians 1:10 saying,
    “that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment”)

    and now he has begun going after the person he has been debating rather than the message.

    Logos has repeatedly said he has no problem with users of the King James Version.
    His deep concern deals with those that pervert the doctrine of inspiration by saying that the KJV is he only inspired English version for all times.

    By attacking him JD, are you violating the passage you accused the Bible translators of violating?

    Rob
     
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  20. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    You have not read the thread apparently. Logos has no other subject and I did not start the thread to talk about it, but if you deal with him, it is about nothing else. Go back and read and post the comment numbers where he has dealt with the subject without inserting a charge against KJV only believers.

    Point me to three places in the thread where he has said that. If he has said it repeatedly it should not be hard for you.

    Where has he said there are other inspired English versions?

    Deacon, with due respect to you, I think you are just blowing smoke in this offering.
     
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