Featured Does Acts 2:38 REALLy teach water baptism requiredto be saved?

woke up at 2:30 am to study. then back to bed, then up at 6 am and looked out at the San Pablo skies. gray.
then went to this board, and my spirits are up.
my brother is pulling some strings and having fun, and when my brother is having fun, I'm having fun.:thumbsup::laugh:
ya gotta be baptized in order to be saved.
why cantcha'll see that ?

 

Are you playing games with the word "saved", or are you saying that eternal salvation is by something in addition to Grace?

 

I thought so and posted before reading the above!

 

Highly unlikely. ἑτέροις τε λόγοις πλείοσιν διεμαρτύρατο καὶ παρεκάλει αὐτοὺς λέγων Σώθητε ἀπὸ τῆς γενεᾶς τῆς σκολιᾶς ταύτης translates almost verbatim into the English form as "And by many other words he testified and exhorted them saying, 'Be saved from this crooked generation.' " as it appears in the NASB. "Save yourselves" is simply bad translation. It cannot be structured to say that.

 

Okay, I have no idea how much Greek you really know, so I have to ask. Are you aware that (1) the middle and passive voices have the same form? (2) in any basic koine Greek grammar you learn early on that "the middle voice represents the subject as acting in some way that concerns itself" (New Testament Greek for Beginners, Machen, p. 57)?

Thus, contrary to your statements, "It cannot be structured to say that," the translation "save yourselves" is just as possible as "be saved." It is most definitely NOT a "bad translation." The rendering is up to the individual translator. Go back to your basic Greek grammar and try again.

Translations that render "save yourselves" include: KJV, MKJV, NKJV, ESV, RSV, WEB, ASV, Montgomery, TCNT, ライフライン訳, and many others in many languages.

 

Except for the fact that the rendering "save yourself" goes against the context, which is salvation of the sinner, not a personal action to garner safety for one's self from any earthly affliction, such as the "perverse generation" spoken of in v. 40. This is Peter's sermon in the Temple courts on the day of Pentecost. Surely you are not suggesting that, in the context of the passage, it is suggested the Peter was preaching salvation by works?

I did. That's why I posted as I did.

And? That fact goes back your comment, "The rendering is up to the individual translator." It may not truly be a "bad" translation, but it is less than optimum. It flirts with conflict with the concept of man's depravity making him unable to respond to the gospel without God's intervention.

 

Of course not. I dealt with this in a previous post.

As I said, I dealt with this in a previous post. I don't see the "save yourselves" statement as soteriological. "Save" has a wide range of meanings in Greek, most usages not being soteriological.

At a guess, since you didn't even seem to know what a middle voice is in Greek, you don't know Greek at all. You have good software and know how to copy and paste and consult your software lexicon. Period. Come back when you've studied it and actually understand the language.

 

Yes, very perceptive of you brother, with tongue in cheek I've intentionally attempted to provoke attention from baptism to the word 'save' (sozo).

 

I basically agree with you, except that I believe that ‘save yourselves’ is exactly correct for the context.

I stated in an earlier post, “When Peter says, "Save yourselves", he is not saying "Send yourselves to heaven". He is saying, 'Escape the wrath to come'.” There’s nothing like applying a healthy dose of the ‘preterist modifier’ (gasp, I said that word, it’s bound to cause some convulsions) to shed light on “Save yourselves from this crooked generation” which is synonymous with:

…Come forth, my people, out of her, that ye have no fellowship with her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues: for her sins have reached even unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. Rev 18:4,5

 

Interpretation of Scripture requires that one discern the difference between:

{1}prophecy regarding the Return of Jesus Christ followed by the General Resurrection and Judgment and

{2}prophecy related to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD!

 

Heeding the included instructions is always helpful. "Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand."

 

70AD wasn't far off but the rest has yet to happen!

 

JoJ, I'm really appreciating this post, you've not told me anything in general I didn't already know, what's surprising to me is just how much I'm agreeing with you.

'Domestic duties' are keeping me occupied, I'm hoping to articulate some thoughts in your direction shortly.

 

You're welcome. It's always nice to agree. :wavey:

I'll be waiting for your further comments.

 

Too much of an accord going on in here..

Psst, Brother John, don't tell anyone I said this, but Brother KYR said your feet stink.....*****said in a whispering tone so none can hear*****:laugh::smilewinkgrin:

 

Hah! Actually, I'm built upside down: my feet smell and my nose runs. :laugh:

 

1) Because the thief on the cross to Jesus' right didn't get himself baptized, even though baptism for the remission of sins had been instigated.
2) Because Jesus was baptized under such instigation, and he had no sins to repent of
3) Because if someone repents and accepts Christ, and then a sniper shoots him dead when he's on the way to the baptistry, he has still believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, and is therefore saved (Acts 16:31).