1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Does God Choose Man or Does Man Choose God - Part 3

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Miss E, Jul 27, 2020.

  1. Miss E

    Miss E Active Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2020
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    33
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I'm enjoying reading the discussion/debate about this controversal topic in the Christian community. As for me, as most of you know, I believe we choose God via our free-will choice when we choose to believe upon Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour.

    I'll throw this story out from John to highlight my point:

    A Man Born Blind Receives Sight

    9 Now as Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth. 2 And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

    3 Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him. 4 I[a] must work the works of Him who sent Me while it is day; the night is coming when no one can work. 5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

    6 When He had said these things, He spat on the ground and made clay with the saliva; and He anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay. 7 And He said to him, “Go, wash in the pool of Siloam” (which is translated, Sent). So he went and washed, and came back seeing.

    8 Therefore the neighbors and those who previously had seen that he was [b]blind said, “Is not this he who sat and begged?”

    9 Some said, “This is he.” Others said, [c]“He is like him.”

    He said, “I am he.

    10 Therefore they said to him, “How were your eyes opened?”

    11 He answered and said, “A Man called Jesus made clay and anointed my eyes and said to me, ‘Go to [d]the pool of Siloam and wash.’ So I went and washed, and I received sight.”

    12 Then they said to him, “Where is He?”

    He said, “I do not know.”

    The Pharisees Excommunicate the Healed Man

    13 They brought him who formerly was blind to the Pharisees. 14 Now it was a Sabbath when Jesus made the clay and opened his eyes. 15 Then the Pharisees also asked him again how he had received his sight. He said to them, “He put clay on my eyes, and I washed, and I see.”

    16 Therefore some of the Pharisees said, “This Man is not from God, because He does not [e]keep the Sabbath.”

    Others said, “How can a man who is a sinner do such signs?” And there was a division among them.

    17 They said to the blind man again, “What do you say about Him because He opened your eyes?”

    He said, “He is a prophet.”

    18 But the Jews did not believe concerning him, that he had been blind and received his sight, until they called the parents of him who had received his sight. 19 And they asked them, saying, “Is this your son, who you say was born blind? How then does he now see?”

    20 His parents answered them and said, “We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind; 21 but by what means he now sees we do not know, or who opened his eyes we do not know. He is of age; ask him. He will speak for himself.” 22 His parents said these things because they feared the Jews, for the Jews had agreed already that if anyone confessed that He was Christ, he would be put out of the synagogue. 23 Therefore his parents said, “He is of age; ask him.”

    24 So they again called the man who was blind, and said to him, “Give God the glory! We know that this Man is a sinner.”

    25 He answered and said, “Whether He is a sinner or not I do not know. One thing I know: that though I was blind, now I see.”

    26 Then they said to him again, “What did He do to you? How did He open your eyes?”

    27 He answered them, “I told you already, and you did not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you also want to become His disciples?”

    28 Then they reviled him and said, “You are His disciple, but we are Moses’ disciples. 29 We know that God spoke to Moses; as for this fellow, we do not know where He is from.”

    30 The man answered and said to them, “Why, this is a marvelous thing, that you do not know where He is from; yet He has opened my eyes! 31 Now we know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does His will, He hears him. 32 Since the world began it has been unheard of that anyone opened the eyes of one who was born blind. 33 If this Man were not from God, He could do nothing.”

    34 They answered and said to him, “You were completely born in sins, and are you teaching us?” And they [f]cast him out.

    True Vision and True Blindness

    35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He said to him, “Do you believe in the Son of [g]God?”

    36 He answered and said, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?”

    37 And Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him and it is He who is talking with you.”

    38 Then he said, “Lord, I believe!” And he worshiped Him.

    39 And Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may be made blind.”

    40 Then some of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these words, and said to Him, “Are we blind also?”

    41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you say, ‘We see.’ Therefore your sin remains.

    AMEN!!

    So in context of this entire chapter on the blind man now believing, we can all conclude that only after the blind man was obedient and obeyed Jesus by going to wash in the pool did God give him Sight. Now at teh end where Jesus asks him if he believed in Jesus, the blind man replies 'Lord I believe!" so why did the blind man receieve his sight in the end? For faith in Jesus, doing what He said, not knowing if He could heal him or not, but having that faith, which as the Bible says is counted to us as righteousness, and then, and only then, did Jesus open His eyes to see Him.

    So in a sense, Jesus does choose us, but only AFTER we choose to believe upon Him. :)
     
  2. Miss E

    Miss E Active Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2020
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    33
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I'd also like to pose the question to the Calvinists whether or not their beliefs state, according to them, that God is perfectly Good yet He ordains and plans the atrocities and sins in the lives of mankind?

    If so, I would like to say that that is a clear contradiction between a Good God and a God who makes bad things happen to people. How does that align with a Good and Loving God?

    Moreover, does man CHOOSE to sin? Or does God predestine us to sin?

    Hmmmmmm
     
  3. AustinC

    AustinC Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    949
    Likes Received:
    194
    Faith:
    Baptist
    MissE, you are providing a false equivalent.
    The healing of a blind man's eyes is not equivalent to the saving of the blind man's soul. Therefore, there is no connection in this story to salvation.
     
  4. Miss E

    Miss E Active Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2020
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    33
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The man WAS saved because He had faith that God would make his blind eyes see. How is that not in accordance with his salvation?

    My analogy is, thus then, that a man's will to have faith in Jesus' work grants that man salvation by God DUE to his faith!

    So what you are saying... is that that blind man was not saved? But He only received sight?

    Then what was the purpose of the story of this man's miracle? To show God could do miracles or to show what God desires from Man? To have faith to believe that Jesus can do what He says He can/will do for us if we believe?

    Take a look at what it says again my friend:

    35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He said to him, “Do you believe in the Son of [g]God?”

    36 He answered and said, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?”

    37 And Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him and it is He who is talking with you.”

    38 Then he said, “Lord, I believe!” And he worshiped Him.
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    43,963
    Likes Received:
    2,160
    Faith:
    Baptist
    We all have been born with a sin nature whose natural inclination is to sin!
     
  6. AustinC

    AustinC Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    949
    Likes Received:
    194
    Faith:
    Baptist
    We have no idea if the man was ever saved. We do know that the man's eyes were healed, however, and we know he believed Jesus that Jesus could heal his eyes. You are conflating healing with salvation. Moreso, you are attempting to create your doctrine of free will salvation off from an unrelated event.
     
Loading...