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Featured Does God Control Sin?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Feb 8, 2024.

  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I agree with you insofar as the Reformed using "double speak".

    Christ died for everybody. They redefine "whole world" as well.

    BUT I was very clear that I was using YOUR definition of "control" as a verb, not a Reformed position.

    We also have to recognize that the Reformed redefines "foreknown" to mean "decreed", orthwise we get into the problem between Calvinists and Arminians (decree vs ordain). But that's another discussion for when the OP has worked out its kinks.

    Personally, I do not view God as making all thinks work for the good - or controlling events - as God controlling sin. But that was the definition you chose in the OP.

    If you wanted a more neauanced form of that definition when applied to sin then you should have used one in your argument.

    For example, you could have pointed out that you are strictly applying that definition to causing sin rather than events that are produced from, or create an environment form, sin.

    You assumed I would take a Reformed stance to that definition, but I didn't. Quite the opposite - I wanted you to remove a reactionary assumption from your argument.



    To clarify, I was strictly abiding by your definition as provided in the OP (the definition you provided that included events). My intent was not to argue with you (as I believe we agree) but to strengthen your argument because it was not fully correct as presented in the original post.
     
  2. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Hi Jon, either definition as in the OP, makes God the author of sin. Here they are again

    When used as a noun

    “the power to influence or direct people's behaviour or the course of events

    And as a verb

    determine the behaviour or supervise the running of

    IF God INFLUENCES or DETERMINES our behaviour, which leads us to sin, then God is the CAUSE of our sin, and the AUTHOR.

    Where is your problem?

    In Jesus

    Andy
     
  3. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Please comment on 1 Kings 22:22,23

    18 Then the king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, “Did I not tell you that he would not prophesy anything good regarding me, but only bad?”
    19 And Micaiah said, “Therefore, hear the word of the Lord. I saw the Lord sitting on His throne, and all the angels of heaven standing by Him on His right and on His left. 20 And the Lord said, ‘Who will entice Ahab to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’ And one spirit said this, while another said that. 21 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, and said, ‘I will entice him.’ 22 And the Lord said to him, ‘How?’ And he said, ‘I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all his prophets.’ Then He said, ‘You shall entice him, and you will also prevail. Go and do so.’ 23 Now then, behold, the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all these prophets of yours; and the Lord has declared disaster against you.”
    NASB​

    Rob
     
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  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    @Deacon has aptly shown where my problem is with the OP. It is in what you believe makes God the author of sin.

    I'll await your comment on his post.
     
  5. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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  6. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    God is the author of sin, it's according to His purpose that it exists
     
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    What passages lead you to believe that God authors sin?

    I ask because I agree that God is sovereign over sin, but disagree that God Himself is a sinner (authors sin, or is the father of sin).
     
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  8. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    So your saying that your version of god, in His absolute determinism, is responsible for all the sin we see in the world. Have I got that right?
     
    #28 Silverhair, Feb 10, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2024
  9. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    All things exist according to God's purpose including sin, that doesn't make God a sinner.
     
  10. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is all according to His purpose. So God is Sovereign in everything. Don't ask me no more if I believe my God is Sovereign, now you know
     
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 2:9, . . . And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. . . ."
     
  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I can hardly connect to BB from Old England, so can't respond due to disconnects
     
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  13. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I can hardly connect to BB from Old England, so can't respond due to disconnects
     
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  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    It also does not make God the Author of sin.
     
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Connection has been odd here too. Very slow.
     
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  16. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    I believe God is the author of sin but not the doer of sin. Gods purpose authors everything
     
  17. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Have they paid the bill ;)
     
  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I agree that God does not do sin, but I disagree in that I do not believe God is the creator of sin.

    James tells us how sin originates. God does not even tempt us to sin much less create sin.

    That does not negate God does making all work for His purposes...even sin.

    But we, not God, are responsible for creating our own sin.
     
  19. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    In what way does God "control" mass murders, serial killers and rapists?

    How can God be said to "control" these heneous sins like what Hitler did?

    I am not too interested in the twists by some of the so called Reformed
     
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Doubt it. ;)
     
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