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Featured Does God Control Sin?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Feb 8, 2024.

  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    People ought to be very careful not to try and understand the origin of sin and wickedness and evil. The Lord in His Infinite Wisdom has chosen not to tell us and we should accept that
     
  2. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    So He is the author of sin. Well that means that man is not responsible for any sin they commit as God has authored it and since we can not go against Him you have just made God the greatest sinner.

    The fact that the bible says He does not sin which means He can not be the author of sin sort of flies in the face of your argument.
     
  3. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I have shown in the OP the wacky ideas by one of the Reformed, Wayne Grudem, which is blasphemy
     
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I think there are things we can know.

    We can know that the author of human sin is "the prince of the air".

    We can know that every man is responsible for his own sin, that it comes about via temptation.

    And we can know that this temptation to sin is not from God.

    But to suggest that God causes sin is something I believe we, as Christians, can strongly reject.
     
  5. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    You can disagree I believe God's purpose is the First Cause of everything to include sin, it served His Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11
     
  6. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    You read my post I didn't stutter
     
  7. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    The most commonly used answer to God's control of the problem of evil and suffering is to claim that God has a "good reason" for allowing it.

    The "Greater Good" Argument.

    What we think is evil or "out of control" is really necessary for the divinely predicted final outcome.
    It leads a sufferer to conclude that evil and sin are not really so bad after all...for it's all part of God's plan.
    There are problems with this argument:
    It means that all evil and suffering is necessary; God couldn't accomplish his plan without it.
    This can lead to a fatalistic attitude towards our suffering;
    Why pray for deliverance if God has control of things and planned the suffering for good?​
    There is an aspect of the Greater Good Argument that includes Free Will.
    God values FREE WILL so much that even if it results in terrible evil and suffering, it is all worth it (from God's perspective).
    At a funeral I'm sure you've heard, "God has a reason, there must be a purpose".
    A family member has cancer, "God has a reason, there must be a purpose."
    (The phrase can push a person away from God. Don't say it!)

    Psalm 39:1-3; 7–11 (NASB 2020)
    I said, “I will keep watch over my ways
    So that I do not sin with my tongue;
    I will keep watch over my mouth as with a muzzle
    While the wicked are in my presence.” ​
    I was mute and silent,
    I refused to say even something good,
    And my pain was stirred up. ​
    My heart was hot within me,
    While I was musing the fire burned;
    Then I spoke with my tongue:​


    And now, Lord, for what do I wait?
    My hope is in You.​
    Save me from all my wrongdoings;
    Do not make me an object of reproach for the foolish.​
    I have become mute, I do not open my mouth,
    Because it is You who have done it.​
    Remove Your plague from me;
    Because of the opposition of Your hand I am perishing.​
    With rebukes You punish a person for wrongdoing;
    You consume like a moth what is precious to him;​
    Certainly all mankind is mere breath!
    Selah​

    Rob
     
  8. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    The greater good argument is unbiblical. We are trying to get into the mind of Almighty God to understand His Ways and Purposes. It is a non starter
     
  9. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Might I suggest you tone down your posts a bit.
    Words like 'blasphemous' and 'unbiblical' are uncalled for.
    Instead post reasons why you disagree with a position or why it should not be considered.

    Rob
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    What Grudem says is blasphemy so why call it anything else?

    Unbiblical means that the Holy Bible does not teach it
     
  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I agree with Eph 3:11, so we have that in common.

    But I absolutely disagree with your conclusion that God causes sin.


    Now, we can go back and say that had God not created then there would be no evil, therefore God causes evil. There would be no homosexuality therefore God causes homosecuality. There would be no murder, therefore God causes murder.

    But I believe that is a move from theology to philosophy.
     
  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    What are you on about here?
     
  13. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Disagreement is not blasphemy.
    If it were your opening premise might be considered blasphemous.

    God is not Absolutely Sovereign.
    God is sovereign over his creation.
    But God cannot do absolutely anything without restraint or restriction.
    God simply cannot do that which is against his nature.

    It matters in the discussion you began.

    Rob
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I am on about the idea God is sovereign therefore He is the author of sin.

    That is wrong thinking.

    As Christians we can rely on God and on God's Word, not take Scripture as some philosophical concept.

    This is how I know that God is not the author of sin, or of evil. And this is how I know thar God will work everything for His good.

    I do not need to ponder whether God causes us to sin because I know He doesn't. At the same time I do not have to wonder if God will accomplish His plans because I know He will.

    If I find those things problematic then the problem is with me and how I try to fit things together. BUT no matter what I can't justify denying a fact simply because I can't fit it into my theology.
     
  15. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    You can disagree, I believe sin was ordained and purposed by God in accordance with His Eternal Purpose in Christ
     
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Ordained, depending on how you define "ordain", is not "authored".

    Arminianism holds that God ordains sin, not that it should happen but in occurring God uses these events in accordance with His preordained plan.

    Adam's sin would be a good example.

    Do you mean "decreed" (ordained to mean decreed)?

    The difference is between God causing Adam to sin and Adam sinning in accordance with God's plan. The first has God authoring sin, the second God causing all things to work out for His good.
     
  17. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Then He cannot be God!
     
  18. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    God authored sin as He is the first cause of sin in the world, as He is with everything else.
     
  19. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    To say God isnt absolutely Sovereign is Blasphemy, His Kingdom/Sovereignty rules all Ps 103:19

    The Lord hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all.
     
  20. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    God cannot be the author of sin or wickedness or evil because this is 100% AGAINST His Holy Nature and Character.

    Neither can God CAUSE us to sin or CONTROL our sins as both come from within us

    God in His Infinite Wisdom has chosen not to tell us how sin and wickedness and evil originated and we have to be content with that as we are mere Created humans

    God has also not told us in His Infallible Word how Lucifer became the devil apart from the fact that he rebelled against God. Nor why He has allowed the devil to continue

    Ours is not to reason why...
     
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