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Does God Hate Sinners?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by TCGreek, Jul 12, 2007.

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  1. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    Recently I was reading Psalm 5 when I came across this verse, "The boastful shall not stand before your eyes; you hate all evildoers" (v.5). The KJV reads, "The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity."

    I grew up hearing, "God loves the sinner but hates his sins." Then I read this Scripture. What should we make of this Scripture?
     
    #1 TCGreek, Jul 12, 2007
  2. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    God hates the sinner and the sin. But thats not a very popular message today, brother.
     
    #2 James_Newman, Jul 12, 2007
  3. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Define "hate". Sane (hebrew) and Miseo (greek) have very different meanings from our engilish word.

    We're also told, as believers, to hate our mother and father and sisters and brothers. Same meaning?
     
    #3 webdog, Jul 12, 2007
  4. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Then God hates us...because we sin. Try again...
     
    #4 webdog, Jul 12, 2007
  5. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Agreed. We know that God loves even the sinner.

    John 3:16 (Calvinists, do not read :))

    "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

    Romans 5:8
    But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
     
    #5 Amy.G, Jul 12, 2007
  6. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    I am following your argument. How then should we understand the Hebrew verb sane in the light of the Greek verb miseo as used in Luke 14:26?
     
    #6 TCGreek, Jul 12, 2007
  7. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    Let's not turn this into another Calvinism debate, please. I understand what those verses say, but help me understand Psalm 5:5 without pitting Scripture against Scripture.
     
    #7 TCGreek, Jul 12, 2007
  8. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Obviously God hates sinners. It says so plainly in Psalm 5:5. God also loves some sinners enough to have mercy on them. The next question is, why only SOME sinners? Then it turns into a Calvinism debate.
     
    #8 npetreley, Jul 12, 2007
  9. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    The problem you have with this, then, is God STILL hates sinners. We are still sinners. God must hate us...
     
    #9 webdog, Jul 12, 2007
  10. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Since the greek was derived from the hebrew...I'm not really following what you are asking...
     
    #10 webdog, Jul 12, 2007
  11. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    Or we should stop sinning.
     
    #11 James_Newman, Jul 12, 2007
  12. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    Before the 16th cen. when Calvin was born and wrote his Institutes of the Christian Religion, how did devoted followers of Jesus Christ, when they read Psalm 5:5, understand it?
     
    #12 TCGreek, Jul 12, 2007
  13. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    We'll see how long that lasts. Remember the 24 hour sinless thread?
     
    #13 webdog, Jul 12, 2007
  14. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    I didn't mean that it has to be reduced to a Calvinism issue as in "it only mattered after Calvin". I'm just saying that such a debate is almost sure to ensure. Look at what we know:

    1. The Bible says God hates evildoers
    2. The Bible says we are all evildoers (all have sinned and fall short, etc.)
    3. The Bible says that, nevertheless, some of us receive mercy, which changes us from evildoers to servants/adopted sons who err (not the same thing as being an evildoer)

    It's only natural to ask, why only some of us? Then you have to start dealing with free-will and election.

    Or you can just stop at #3, I suppose, and just accept the fact that God hates evildoers but has mercy on some.
     
    #14 npetreley, Jul 12, 2007
  15. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    God will tell you which ones He has mercy on in the bible, it's not a huge secret.
     
    #15 James_Newman, Jul 12, 2007
  16. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I don't have my hebrew definition of the word sane, but from memory, "detest" and 'despise' are two variables of the word.
     
    #16 webdog, Jul 12, 2007
  17. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    Greek was not derived from Hebrew (that's another thread). The Greek of the NT is koine. If we refer to the Greek OT, then we are talking about the LXX, which is koine Greek as well.

    I am simply using the Greek miseo, "hate," which you brougnt up, as the counterpart of the Hebrew sane, "hate."

    Here is the Greek OT, the LXX on our passage: ου διαμενουσιν παρανομοι κατεναντι των οφθαλμων σου εμισησας παντας τους
    εργαζομενους την ανομιαν     . In bold letters is aorist act. ind. of miseo. Maybe this should help.

    What then does it mean that God hates evildoers?
     
    #17 TCGreek, Jul 12, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 12, 2007
  18. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    David was a man after God's own heart.

    Psalms 101:3-5
    3 I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me.
    4 A froward heart shall depart from me: I will not know a wicked person.
    5 Whoso privily slandereth his neighbor, him will I cut off: him that hath a high look and a proud heart will not I suffer.
     
    #18 James_Newman, Jul 12, 2007
  19. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Well, He must be saying something to the effect of hateing the sin but of course just reading the scripture it seems He hated the evildoer himself. I know He said He hated the "deeds" of the Nicholadins but He told us to love our enemies. He also said that he that is a friend of the world is an enemy to God which has to be the sinners. Why would God tell us to love them when He didn't?
    I suspect He was telling us the "evil deeds" is what He hated.

    Rom 5:8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
     
    #19 Brother Bob, Jul 12, 2007
  20. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    Allow me to quote a sermon I am sure you know well...

    -Jonathan Edwards, "Sinners In The Hands of An Angry God".

    http://www.leaderu.com/cyber/books/edwards/sinners.html
     
    #20 Martin, Jul 12, 2007
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