Does God hate the Sinner?

So what are you saying?

 

Go,take a long look at 1 Cor 5:5 and think about it. What had this man lost but still yet retained?

 

How about you stop being so mysterious and tell us the difference between kingdom salvation and eternal salvation?

 

How about you stop being so shallow and state your thoughts on 1 Cor 5:5. What had this man lost but still yet retained?

 

Now Children, Children.

 

Sigh. I asked you a simple question and you answered it with a question wanting to know my opinion on a verse.

The verse is talking about excommunication because of immorality of one of the members of the Corinthian church. The idea is to punish the man in order to restore him to a right relationship with God and subsequently being brought back into the church.

How does this address two kingdoms?????

 

Sigh.

At the time this was recorded no one knew, Paul included, that the man would be restored. At that moment in time, Paul, with the authority that had been vested in him as an apostle, turned him over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh [READ WRATH TO A BELIEVER], BUT, the man's spirit would still yet be saved in the day of the Lord.

The man had affectively lost any joy, peace, righteousness, fellowship with the Saints, i.e., HE HAD BEEN BOOTED OUT OF THE KINGDOM (which is here, now) AND HAD FORFEITED HIS GOSPEL (KINGDOM) SALVATION, BUT HAD RETAINED HIS ETERNAL SALVATION. He was still bound for heaven irregardless.

Maybe you just breeze over this like it's insignificant, but it is not. It's a glorious truth that we should all rejoice in:

if we are faithless, he abideth faithful; for he cannot deny himself. 2 Tim 2:13

 

Who booted him out of the kingdom? Paul? Paul doesn't have the authority to boot anyone out of God's kingdom any more than you do. That is for God alone. And there is no evidence that God ever boots anyone out of His kingdom.

Can you provide other scripture to back this up besides 1 Cor. 5:5?

I guess you have to manufacture this belief in order to justify your belief that we are living in the millennial kingdom now?

You still have not answered what the difference is between these two kingdoms?

 

I am convinced that the false theology of Dispensationalism has done as much or more damage to the truth of the gospel as any heresy that there ever was. Because of it, we're simply unable to comminicate. It blows my mind. God have mercy on us all.

Good night Amy. I'm done here.

 

Who said anything about dispensationalism?

Do you refuse to answer my question?

What is the difference between kingdom salvation and eternal salvation?

Who has the authority to boot anyone out of the kingdom? You say it is Paul. I would just like an explanation.

 

The more I read about Primitive Baptist, the more amazed I am that anyone would hold to such a bizarre doctrine as they do. Kyredneck is a prime example of "wrongly" dividing the Word of God.

How in the world anyone would think that this is the Millennium Kingdom is beyond me.

 

What I find bizarre (in addition to the 2 kingdom thing) is someone who on a public forum proclaims a belief in it and then refuses to explain themselves. If it's true wouldn't you want everyone to understand it?

 

For anyone who is interested, here are a few quotes from Michael Gowens, a Primitive Baptist Pastor's articles. (2 articles, one about “EFFECTUAL CALLING” & another about “JUSTIFICATION”)...with a few comments from me.

(I have not intentionally taken anything out of context...I am aiming to fairly represent this man's positions)

-Amen, and Amen.

-I disagree with this statement, God can use human means to accomplish his will.

-These 3 quotes get to the heart of the "2 salvations" issue. He believes that the effectual call (which always results in regeneration leading to eternal life) is different than the call to follow and obey Jesus (described using the terms: discipleship, obedience, kingdom salvation).
-The middle quote, when take with the first, seems to say that the point of the Gospel is not really eternal salvation at all, but simply to help us live better while we are here on earth.
-I would agree with the entirety of the last quote, except that this man believes that one's response to this gospel call is not connected to their eternal state.

-yet, according to the previous statements, one can be regenerated without being converted.

He draws a sharp distinction between Regeneration and Justification by faith. He elsewhere describes justification in the legal terms of God declaring us righteous...but here speaking of Justification BY FAITH, he takes that merely to mean that by faith I can justify to myself that I have been redeemed. So faith results in assurance, not eternal salvation.

...All in all, very interesting stuff. I had heard of primitive baptists before, but did not know much about their beliefs.

 

In reference to the Kingdom......there is the already/not yet.....

Jesus rules right now .....in the midst of His enemies...as the Kingdom spreads worldwide through gospel preaching.

At the end, the last day....all things, persons who offend are removed...showing there are tares among the wheat now.
That is the already part....

the eternal state is the not yet.

 

While I don't know how valid the comparison is, I had a pastor who told me that we get our concept of our heavenly Father from our earthly one.That's why I don't believe in a father's love.

I never felt loved by my dad who was cruel and delighted in beating the tar out of me whenever I did anything that he didn't like; they weren't simple spankings but cruel and severe beatings. Plus, his cruel words did far more damage to my mind than his beatings ever did to my body. I healed from the beatings, but I have never completely healed from his destructive words. To this day I don't believe he ever loved me. He enjoyed the beating and criticizing too much. There were never any kind words from him, hugs, or any affection whatsoever from him. I thank God I had a loving and kind mother.

 

Jon I have heard your kind of testimony too many times. In fact one is too many as this should never happen even once. The blessing in all this is that once we come to Christ the experience of the love of God is now as full as we are willing to allow it to be. I certainly can say that He wants us to experience it to its fullest. Sometimes the hard part is receiving it. I think that sometimes we just do not know what to do with His love since it is so freely given.
My guess is that your father was passing on what he felt from his father and that is sad. Now that you have a new loving Father you can learn to pass on what He has shown you. May I also learn to pass this on as He would have me. God bless.