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Does God Have "Free Will"?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by thatbrian, Feb 20, 2018.

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  1. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

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    Tom, I am more than willing to be "enlightened" by someone who is passionate about his/her position while maintaining the right disposition. I give no audience to the "I'm right - you're wrong" attitude.

    It seems as if these folks were given a choice.

    Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

    Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

    Proverbs 1:28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
    29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:

    Isaiah 7:15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
    16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

    Isaiah 65:12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not
    .
     
  2. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    Yes. Lost people always choose wrong. That is their nature.

    Yes, saved people can choose to serve God. That is within their nature.

    Yes, lost people always choose wrong. That is their nature.

    Yes. Lost people always choose wrong. That is their nature.

    Yes, the saved can choose to refuse evil and choose good. That is within their nature.

    Yes, lost people always choose wrong. That is their nature.

    Bob, thank you for posing these verses which prove my point. The lost, having only their old nature, always choose wrong. The saved, having both an old and new nature, can choose either.

    But Bob, the very fact that you post verses dealing with people choosing proves you don't understand "free will." It has nothing to do with making choices. Everybody makes choices every day. It is the nature of the person making the choice that is at issue, not the fact they make choices.
     
  3. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    So He is Free to be absolutly Holy and Righteous, He is Free to do anything He wants to do, Free Will does not include things we do not want to do. That is illogical. That is not free at all, that is the opposite, maybe coercion or slavery

    free will "the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion"

    God has free will.

     
  4. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Yea, some of these responses do not make sense. Let's say i do not want to do something. Just because i do not want to do it does not mean i do not have free will. It's when i want to do something but cannot do it--that is what determines i do not have free will, right?
     
  5. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    So, according to you God is free to sin?
     
  6. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    The reasoning is a bit convoluted but essentially correct. A lost person cannot, due to his nature, be spiritual, or merit heaven on his own virtues. He may want to (for his own selfish reasons) but he is unable due to his sin nature.
     
  7. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    God does not desire to sin, and has the ability not to sin, so is this a non sequitur?
     
  8. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    No. It is a question directed at the concept that "free will" means the ability to act outside a persons moral nature.
     
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  9. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    But like i said, If someone does not want to and has the ability not to, the question of "Is he able to" is a non sequitur.
     
  10. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Can God lie?
     
  11. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Luke 10

    25And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”26And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?” 27And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” 28And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.” 29But wishing to justify himself, he said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

    The Good Samaritan

    30Jesus replied and said, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among robbers, and they stripped him and beat him, and went away leaving him half dead. 31“And by chance a priest was going down on that road, and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. 32“Likewise a Levite also, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33“But a Samaritan, who was on a journey, came upon him; and when he saw him, he felt compassion, 34and came to him and bandaged up his wounds, pouring oil and wine on them; and he put him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35“On the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper and said, ‘Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I return I will repay you.’ 36“Which of these three do you think proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell into the robbers’ hands?37And he said, “The one who showed mercy toward him.” Then Jesus said to him, “Go and do the same.”


    So this is not the Good Samaritan, it is the Evil Samaritan?

    "A lost person cannot, due to his nature, be spiritual, or merit heaven on his own virtues. He may want to (for his own selfish reasons) but he is unable due to his sin nature."

    When presented to give an example of LOVING GOD and LOVING NEIGHBOR, Jesus Christ offers the Good Samaritan. He even tells his audience GO and DO the SAME.

    Calvinist Jesus Would not have done this and would have harped on the capacity rested on those chosen of same religion.

    Calvinist are merely trying to push the exact same sentiment the Lawyer had "who is my neighbor?" and applying it exclusively to only those who are Calvinist.

    To a Calvinist there is absolutely NO SUCH THING as a Good Samaritan.
     
  12. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    You think that unregenerate sinners can act in manner pleasing to God, right?
     
  13. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Where did i say that?
     
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  14. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    He has no reason to lie--He does not want to--the better question is, is there anything stopping Him from telling the truth?
     
  15. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    You are answering questions I didn't ask. Can God lie? Does He have the ability to lie?
     
  16. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    All over BB.
     
  17. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    LOL--i'd like to see just one post mi amigo
     
  18. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    But who says that is what determines free will?
     
  19. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    You.
     
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  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    He alone has real free will, as there is nothing hindering/restrictive Him having His will to get done...
    And unlike us, His will is always perfect and true, ashe cannot contradict Hos own nature!
     
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