Featured Does God learn? Reframed Question.

I did not say they proved "Original Sin". I said:

Why???

 

You are new here, very new. If you were here for any length of time, you would know that almost all threads go off topic like this.

Relax and go with the flow.

 

double post

 

Why don't you just go where the thread goes? Once you have been here awhile you will see this is normal. You will do it yourself, wait and see.

You just don't like what I said. Perfectly understandable. Maybe you are beginning to see, but I think not.

 

Why don't you just not derail the thread.

 

Just because it happens doesn't make it right. It's against forum rules. The mods must be on vacation this week.

But of course God knew you would derail the thread because he knows everything.

 

You guys are derailing the thread now. I was responding to people who asked me questions from yesterday.

I have already answered what I believe concerning the OP. I believe there is real evidence God limits himself when appearing directly to men. The scriptures say no man can look on God and live, yet the scriptures tell us God appeared to men many times. It was at these times that God spoke as though he was not omniscient, so I believe in these instances God truly limited himself, just as he limited his power when he wrestled Jacob.

See, you cannot explain away Jacob prevailing over God in a wrestling match and you know it. You cannot deny that God limited himself. My argument is simply that God could have, and may have limited his omniscience in certain situations as well. This way God could honestly ask questions such as where Abel was, or tell Abraham that NOW he knows he fears God.

Your argument is that God says things he does not mean. That is very close to calling God a liar.

 

Well first of all, the "you know it" was totally unnecessary as I have explained it. I have not need to explain it "away."

Now, your first sentence I quoted above is interesting. You said "as though." I'm assuming by that you mean that he is speaking "as thought he was not omniscience but he still was omniscient. In other words he wasn't utilizing the knowledge that he had. It would be like someone asking another person a question they already know the answer to. But they just want to hear them actually say it.

As far as Jacob story goes, God limiting his power doesn't mean that he doesn't have the power. (If you let your child beat you in an arm wrestling match it doesn't mean that you didn't have the power to beat them, just you didn't use it.) Just like if God were to ever limit his use of knowledge, it wouldn't' mean that he doesn't have that knowledge.

God wasn't asking where able was because he didn't know and he didn't' say that "now I know" because he didn't know before. Those are assumptions that are being made only if we read the text as a child would read it. Was God really wondering what Abraham would do? No, of course not. But after Abraham proved himself, God now knew by Abraham's action. It's not that he didn't already know what the result would already be. God is eternal.

Where have I ever used that argument? God does mean what he says, but I know how to read above a 1st grade level. I also believe the Bible when it says God knows everything. So no, I don't call God a liar because he NEVER says that there is something he didn't already know.

 

Well JBH, I don't think God let Jacob win. I think Jacob really and truly won the wrestling match.

What I am saying is that in order for God to appear to men he must limit his attributes or men would fall dead on the spot. In this form he is truly limited, Jacob was able to truly win the wrestling match, and God was sincerely asking where Abel was, and he was being sincere when he told Abraham "for now I know that thou fearest God".

At the same time, God is in heaven and knows everything. Let me show a verse to explain.

Jhn 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Do you see what Jesus is telling Nicodemus here? Jesus is telling Nicodemus that he was in heaven! This is while Jesus was sitting or standing right in front of Nicodemus!

Was Jesus really and truly present with Nicodemus? Of course. Was Jesus really in heaven at the same time? Yes.

Now, Jesus that was truly standing in front of Nicodemus was limited. He got hungry, he got tired, he could be injured and bleed, he could physically die.

Is the same true of Jesus who was in heaven at the same moment? NO.

We cannot understand this, but both are true.

And Jesus when he was on the earth said he did not know when he would return, only his Father. He was limited, he was not omniscient.

If you guys can figure this out, you are better men than me. Nevertheless, I believe both are true.

 

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

Well, that would be heretical as worded as it would make Jacob better than God. It would deny God's sovereignty and his omnipotence.

So God limits...He let Jacob win.....

No, the text doesn't allow for that. You are making a wild assumption that isn't warranted in the text. Of course God knew where he was at. He was there you know.

That's a far cry from what some have said in that God doesn't know something. Yes, Jesus became man. But to say that God doesn't know something isn't biblical.

 

This is almost unbelievable.....but nevertheless you can see that when people turn from light, only darkness is left.

35 Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.