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Does God Love Every Individual Person in the Same Manner?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by thatbrian, Jan 7, 2018.

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  1. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Asked and answered. Read the thread.
     
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Leighton was on here for years...as Skandelon. He is a nice guy. Most of us tried to offer him help with some of his mistaken ideas...often he would sound and post like the person paul was correcting in romans 9.
    He tried to debate James White on romans 9 and it was an epic fail...he could not exegete the passage, instead tried to use carnal philosophy...failed big time...he is a nice guy though...
     
  3. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    There are many ways to skin a cat, and many Arminians are immune to Romans 9 because they have ignored it for so long.
     
  4. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    Can you please reference the post so I can read it without having to reread the entire thread?

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  5. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    I'm sorry, no.
     
  6. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    Well...then I will cut to the chase and answer the OP. No, God does not love everyone the same way. However, that doesn't mean that God love some more than others. If you had multiple children, you probably wouldn't say that you loved one more than the other. You would love them all...but in different ways. You may love your daughter because of her pure heart and her consideration for others. You may love your son because of his courage to do what's right...just like his daddy. You love all your children equally....but differently.

    Likewise, God loves all His creations. That includes all of humanity. He doesn't love one more than the other, just differently.

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  7. Mr. Davis

    Mr. Davis Active Member
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    Well, God doesn't agree with you. He has chosen and called His children in love before the foundation of the Universe. (Eph 1) He has enmity for the wicked. And we are wicked until He regenerates our hearts and gives us a desire for Him.

    God created us human and unfallen. When Adam sinned there is now no faculty of mind, body, or spirit that is not hopelessly corrupt. We are dead spiritually. A dead man can will nothing.

    We love our wives and families only imperfectly. God loves His children with perfect love.
     
  8. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    Why would God go through the trouble of creating something that He hates?
     
  9. Mr. Davis

    Mr. Davis Active Member
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    So that they can enjoy his general grace (enjoying what love and life they can).

    God gives His mercy to some (the elect) and the rest receive His justice for their sins.

    No one receives injustice from God!
     
  10. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    So let me get this straight. You are telling me that God actually creates people he hates for the sole purpose of throwing them in he'll for all eternity to make himself look good?
     
  11. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    Yes.
    There is only one way to love in this context.
    There is only one way to "love".
    The fact that "electing love" is a term which even makes sense in the mind of a Calvinists betrays a deeply flawed grasp of what love, (at least agape love) is.
    And God is, at his very core agape by nature, in the same way that he is just, self-sufficient, holy et. al.

    So, yes, he "loves" them in the same manner.
    There's no other way to do so.
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We love our own children in a higher/different way than others children, same way, but even more so, with God and His Covenant children!
     
  13. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    Yes, but God's agape love stands in complete contradistinction to that.
    Luke 11: 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?

    Luke 11:12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?

    Luke 11: 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

    As I previously suggested:
    Calvinism betrays a deeply and horrifically flawed view of love and ascribes it to God.
    It borders dangerously on blasphemous.
     
    #113 HeirofSalvation, Jan 30, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God loves all equally, even the ones that will be in Hell?
     
  15. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    Yes.
    They're in hell because he is just.
    They're not in hell because he loves them less, or "differently" or anything else.
    That's blasphemous.....or close to it.
    He is just in the same way that he is love; both perfectly, both completely.

    That's the scandal of the gospel.

    It allowed a perfectly just God to provide a way to for his love to reach the most wretched.
    That's the meta-narrative of the Bible.

    They're in hell because of justice, not lack of love or difference in "kind" or "sort" of love.
    That's the difference between the Calvinist and others.
     
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  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God choose to love the Jews over all other peoples, and to have a Covenant relationship with them, correct?
    You are not allowing for the Lord to have His will, as you are trying to force Him to accept your man centered views regarding How he is supposed to love!
     
  17. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    He chose them to be his inheritance whilst he gave the other nations up to be ruled by other Elohim.
    Of course I am.
    That's a stock sequence of words you have been trained to put together, somewhat at random, with no relevance to the topic at hand.
    We are not speaking of his "will" here at all.
    We are speaking of "love" as being a part of his "nature".
    His "will" has nothing to do with it.
    I realize that (at least in general) Calvinists fail to realize that the phrase "man-centered view" is completely devoid of meaning. Therefore, it seems meaningful to you to blather it out. But in reality, "man-centered view" is a conglomerate of words which amounts to nothing, actually says nothing, and informs not a whit.
    Man is made in God's image.
    Man's thinks like God thinks.
    Man is imbued with the powers of logic, reason etc......
    Man suffers from the noetic effects of sin, that is true, but there's no such thing as "man-centered reasoning". That phrase is nonsense.
    God isn't "SUPPOSED" to love in any particular way.
    He just loves.
    He IS love.
    Love is a part of his nature, and the word "supposed" is not at all applicable.

    One isn't even "supposed" to love in either one way or another. It isn't a matter of spiritual duty.

    The fact that you keep speaking and thinking in these terms demonstrates what I have been saying.

    Calvinists either don't understand what "love" is, or they've created a cognitive disconnect between God's nature and properties and his incidental dealings with mankind.

    "Love" (as it pertains to God) is as much a fundamental property which he embodies as much as justice, holiness, self-sufficiency etc.
    It is a description of WHAT and WHO he is.
    By definition, he can't be "holy" in one sense and not another.
    He can't be "just" in only one sense and not another.
    He can't be "self-sufficient" in one sense and not another.

    Similarly, he can't "love" in one way and not another.
    SNIP
     
    #117 HeirofSalvation, Jan 30, 2018
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  18. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    I'm wondering what people who hold to the "God loves everyone in the same manner" idea do with this text:

    Psalm 5:4–6

    [4] For you are not a God who delights in wickedness;
    evil may not dwell with you.
    [5] The boastful shall not stand before your eyes;
    you hate all evildoers.
    [6] You destroy those who speak lies;
    the LORD abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man. (ESV; emphasis mine)

    The Archangel
     
  19. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    Accept it as written is what we "do with it."
    God does not delight in "wickedness"....
    that's the context you already provided for us.

    Therefore he will "hate" the "evildoers".....

    By "hate" he means he will fight against, judge, destroy, wipe-out....pick your action verb....as long as it isn't "prosper" or something.

    Thus, as you provided us the context, it is one's actions...lemme repeat...ACTIONS....he "hates" and abhors and will judge, and those that do them.
    You just bolded it was "evil-doers" he "hated".

    But an "evil-doer" is not the definition of that man as a man.
    That's an assumption built into your theology not shared by us.

    They that DO wickedly...he will abhor and judge etc....
    But, God is able to separate the man himself from the actions he commits.
    God can see the man and love him while also abhorring his actions, and if that man continues and commits to those acts of wickedness his justice means his disposition towards them turns towards abhorrence and "hate" and- barring repentance-....final judgement.

    That is his justice in action.
    And he will, if there be no repentance judge that man in righteousness for his deeds.

    His love, however, means that that man himself, he will suffer on the cross and die for, because of his unending love in order that he might be saved. It is not love to love the lovable.
    It is not love to love the perfect.
    It is not love to love the sinless.
    It is not love to only love one's own children.
    It is love to love the unlovable.

    It was never the man he hated...it is the unrepentant evil-doer...
    That he must judge, and therefore he abhors.

    The man himself, he died for, and he loves him.
    The wicked love their own children:
    Luke 11: 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?

    Luke 11:12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?

    Luke 11: 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

    But God loves the unlovable.
    SNIP
     
    #119 HeirofSalvation, Jan 30, 2018
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  20. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    But, would you describe "Love" in similar terms? If not, your definition of hate does not follow.

    But, the text doesn't say he hates actions... It plainly says He hates those who do evil. A person who does evil is, well, known by what he does. That's quite plain. I have no idea how anyone, such as yourself, could possibly miss that. The only reason I can think of is that you have to say that--in direct contradiction the text and its grammar--so that you can maintain your idea--in contradiction of scripture.

    The problem here is that God doesn't send actions to hell; He sends people who are unrepentant.

    Thank God for that!

    Blessings,

    The Archangel
     
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