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Featured Does God Ordain Everything That Takes Place?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Feb 25, 2022.

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  1. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Human "free will" extends to the same amount that any slave to sin and whose is the heir of Lucifer might have.
     
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    It does not say order....
    Did you read Isa.10?
    How does God speak of the assyrians?
     
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  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    You do not understand it properly yet.
    You need to let scripture inform your understanding.
     
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  4. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Reformed theology does have the answers.
     
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    God can never be the author of sin.Sin exists under God's control.
    The wicked acts of those who crucified Jesus were ordained to happen.Acts2:23 Acts4:25-28
     
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  6. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    I totally agree.

    Yet, I conclude that this is rarely the criterion and standard held by most who read (few read with the intent of understanding, imo).
     
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  7. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Active Member

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    I'm OK with letting scripture stand by itself in this area. God does his will and every attempt by men to question that is rebuffed, whether it's Jacob and Esau or questioning why a man was born blind, or the conversations that take place in Job. God is acting on a level that is beyond us. If you go beyond that all the answers are unsatisfactory.

    Reformed theology, when it tries to answer these questions with philosophical or rational answers fails too. The one thing Reformed theology does do that the others don't do is just admit that God is God and what he does is the right thing. But when you try to give an answer beyond that you fail.
     
  8. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    They answer with scripture....not philosophy.
     
  9. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    God doesn't have to order man to sin. They do it naturally...and God allows it to happen, or he doesn't allow it to happen. This is what it means when God ordains what will happen, both good and bad.
    But, you don't know your Bible so you don't know that God has revealed this truth to you. And since you have me on ignore, you will remain in ignorance.
     
  10. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Do you own a mirror?
     
  11. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Active Member

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    When you get into the idea of the absolute sovereignty of God over every molecule in the universe, and what the precise meaning of "ordain" is you are beyond scripture and into metaphysics. Reformed theology is vast in itself and in areas like this it seems to show development over time as well as diversity of opinion. We have all seen the illustrations of how can you explain a disaster or a heinous crime against a child. Sometimes guys like John Piper for instance get into trouble trying to explain things - which it really isn't their responsibility to explain anyway. Not that any other explanations of why things happen are any better. They aren't.

    I predict that within a few posts someone will be quoting Calvinist theologians who in trying to explain these things will make it look like God is the author of sin. At some point we have to admit that our explanations are incomplete at best.
     
  12. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    You sound like a Lutheran. Mystery...
     
  13. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

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    God did not cause putin to invade. The billionaires who run the world kept pushing nato countries on the border of Russia for no good reason. Our cia their putin = 2 bad character's. People die, billionaires make billions in profits on war. The West's motives. Make billion's.
     
  14. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    How do we know this?
    God caused the Babylonians to invade Judah. (Read Habakkuk)
    We know for certain that God allowed Putin to invade. We know that because God has allowed the invasion, it is within his will for this world. We know that God is perfectly orchestrating his plan.
    Look at the story of Joseph and the subsequent experience of Israel in Eygypt. 400 years of life in Egypt with hundreds of years in slavery and it was all God's will.
    God called Moses and then purposely hardened Pharaoh's heart. In that instance God caused Pharaoh to remain in rebellion yet held him accountable for his hard heart.

    So, you have no idea what God caused to happen, nor do you know why.
     
  15. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    what do you think ORDAIN means?
     
  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    I fully agree that God can NEVER be, or even, be seen to be, the author of sin. This is an IMPOSSIBILITY.

    However, as in the cases of Ahab, and the lying spirit, and the murder of Jesus Christ, God "uses" evil for His Purposes, but never "ordains" it. God "used" Judas in the Death of Jesus Christ, whom He forknew would take the actions that he did. He did not "ordain" what Judas did, which was in his own will to do so.
     
  17. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    Yes, God does not "ordain" ANY sin, even though some of the "Reformed Confessions" says this. It is IMPOSSIBLE for God to do anything this.
     
  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    if something is not ordained to happen...it does not happen.
     
  19. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Sin is ordained to take place.the execution of Jesus was ordained to take place.
     
  20. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    can you here give your definition of "ordain"
     
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