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Featured Does the Anglican/Church Of England Anf Lutheryn Church teach Sacramental grace?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Yeshua1, Jul 14, 2012.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Why adopt a Roman term that has a history of conveying literal grace! It would seem the "Reformed" definition is the guilty party! It is never used in scripture for baptism or the Supper! Yet, Reformed Baptists adopt this Romanized term and try to reinvent it!


    First, our "toots" lie in the Scriptures and specifically those scriptures which provide a predictive forecast on the characteristics of Post-Apostolic development and doctrines of Apostate Christianity and the development and treatment of New Testament Christianity. This inspired guide provides the proper format to INTERPRET so-called "church history."

    Second, our "toots" lie in interpreting so-called "church history" through the lenses of this Bibical predictive format.



    Most "Reformed" Baptist churches are "elder rule" rather than congregational rule under elder leadership.

    The leading Reformed Baptist Churches (MacArthur, Piper, etc.) receive sprinkled, poured or immersed believers into their membership regardless who administered it as long as it was performed after a profession of faith. This is admitted by Dr. John MacArther in his debate with R.C. Sproul in the question and answer part of his debate. This is admitted by Piper's church in their church documents. This is admitted by the pastoral staff of Alister Beggs congregation, etc.

    Their observation of the Lord's Supper is open when the scriptures teach it is to be closed to the metaphorical body partaking it. I realize that I need to demonstrate this point but I believe I can to any fair objective Bible Student.
     
  2. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Correct! I have been a good friend of the late Pastor Alfred Gormley for many many years. Bryan Station reprints most of Dr.Cole's written works. I attended Lexington Baptist College, in Lexington Kentucky and sat under Dr. Roscoe Brong and Dr. Edward Overby among others. I was priviledged to sit under Dr. Roy O. Beman in Seminary. All great men of God.
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Do the reformed see there being a 'spiritual" presene in the midst of the ordiannces? that there is a presense of Jesus with you as you partake of the elements, or get water baptised?

    Think most baptists would just react to there being a "spiritual presense' seen in the ordinances, as we just don't find that example in the scriptures!

    You would still hold to one MUST place faith in jesus and Him alone to be saved thru faith alone, correct? that the ordinances do NOT affect salvation in any fashion, that they are after that fact?
     
  4. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    The Biblicist,,,,,,,,,,I guess you know where I come from theologically. I went to Toronto Baptist Seminary under T.T. Shields and Jarvis St. Baptist Church. The other American professor we had was Dr. G.B. Fletcher of Virginia. He taught Systematic Theology. Great men of God and the word.

    Cheers, and bless,

    Jim
     
  5. Wittenberger

    Wittenberger New Member

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  6. Wittenberger

    Wittenberger New Member

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    Lutherans believe that grace (God's unmerited favor) is given to the believer by hearing the Word, in baptism, and in Holy Communion. These are the means of grace. Contrary to popular belief, Lutherans do not believe that baptism is the only time that God saves.

    Yes, it is God who saves, not man by doing good works, and not man by praying a "Sinner's Prayer". God does it all.

    for more details: http://www.lutherwasnotbornagain.com
     
  7. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Luther believed in justification by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone without works. Luther believed in total depravity and complete inability of the human will. Do you believe what Luther believed in these areas?

    Luther was inconsistent with the ordinances and wrong.
     
  8. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    Good to have a Lutheran perspective on sacraments. Welcome to the board. Are you attending an LCMS parish?
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    same problem John Calvin had!
     
  10. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Im a fan of Martin Luther & Calvin but really disagree with the Catholic like adherences to the sacramental....that from my perspective demeans the objectives of purity & holiness....however who am I to criticize a fellow Christian struggling to interpret Gods plan for humanity. However I am closer to Old Regular & Primitive Baptist orthodoxy than I would be to the sacramental adherents.
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Do you hold that a sinner is fully justified before God by faith in jesus. or that the water and communion also part of that process?
     
  12. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    It would enhance your position Biblicist for you to expound on your blanket statements (esp., the last one)....I am struggling to understand, so please clarify.
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    How so? Do you see the process of salvation same way they would?
     
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Of course....Its all of God, not man. Dont you feel that way yourself?
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    yes, but PB and Hyper cal see them elected and regerated almost at physical birth, or born in that state, so can be saved apart from them placing faith in jesus also!

    Don't hold to the Great Commission not for today!
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Luthor and calvin had right understanding of justification, but stilled had mistakes in views on the ordinances, as calvin tied water baptism to infants, making them part of the faith community, while Luthor saw it as part of salvation/completing the process in some fashion!
     
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