Dr. Stanley and Eternal Security

I take this to mean that "lived" mean when ever it was they lived. and "reigned" means when ever it was they reigned. There is words of "live" and "reign", they added the "ed" for a reason. There are other problems with the thousand year reign thou, there is the fact that the only ones there were the "souls of them that were beheaded" for the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.

 

How would that help. The whole Bible is prophecy!!! Jeepers

You can't tie in the scales with whatso ever a man soweth?

Just be prepared for responses.

 

Come on Brother Bob you can't be serious.

 

And that reason has been explained to you several times now.

John received a prophetic vision. This vision was given in a chronological order. When he was told about one event he was then shown the next event.

The -ed was added, not because the event had actually taken place in real live human history, but the event had occured in the chronology of his vision.

 

Why do you think they were called Prophets??

That is false also.
If in chronological order, then how come in Rev. 10:1 that "time shall end". How can there be a thousand years over in Rev. 20: ????

Rev 10:1¶And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow [was] upon his head, and his face [was] as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:

Rev 10:6And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

You admitted, that you could not prove whether the bodies would be there or not. Yet you want to teach something you can't prove yourself. I am starting to worry about your congregation if you have one, you never told me. I don't know if you are a preacher, are you?

Bedtime :sleeping_2: :thumbs:

 

J.Vernon McGee offers this: They are some who received the Holy Spirit during Jesus ministry and died before the cross. It is JV's contention that Jesus offered the indwelling Spirit even to the disciples but they would not receive it until after He died, John 20.

This would make sense so far as a rapture of the firstfruits. They would have disappeared with Him when Christ Himself arose.

The "last day," right? The last 1000 years. Up front, the rapture and resurrection of just/first resurrection. At the end, the second resurrection. That's how I understand it.

There will be similar to #1 several times within the tribulation alone: 1) 6th seal, 2) 4th trump, 3) 6th vial, 4) return of Christ. #2 was localized at Christ's death. In few of these do we see Christ confessed -- 6th seal and return of Christ. I certainly don't see "all" at the cross confessing Him, do you??

I believe He's speaking of the reformatin of the earth into the New Earth and Heavens.

skypair

 

Now you are just spreading falsities. Please stop. Please go back and read what I said about proving and stay in context. I can't prove anything and neither can you. Truth is not to be proven, but proclaimed. It is the job of the Holy Spirit to convict and convince not mine.

So please quit trying to twist my words and make them say somthing they do not. You are better than that.

And it's not that enough evidence hasn't been given, it's just that you don't want to see the evidence for what it is, and there's nothing I can do for that.

I think our conversation at this point has become useless.

Let me just leave you with something to ponder. If you and others are right and all saved people get to spend eternity in heaven then I have nothing to worry about. Yeah maybe my plot of heaven might not be as big as yours, but big deal it will be heaven. And we'll walk the street of gold together and live happily ever after for ever and ever.

However if I and others that believe like me are in fact right then not only do you, but all of those people you have been entrusted are going to miss out on 1000 years of what God had in store for you. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth in outer darkness.

So think you owe it to yourself and certainly to your congregation to take a harder more open minded look at the things we have discussed and they go way beyond what we have even discussed here. But whether you do or not is completely up to you. But it's just something to think about.

 

Hymeneaous and Philetus (2Tim) made shipwreck of their and others faith by teaching the resurrection had already come (one facet you seem to believe). Does that answer your question?

skypair

 

Originally Posted by Brother Bob

This is a far cry from what I teach and surely you know that.

No, I do not teach that the resurrection of all that are in the grave have come forth. What I do teach is Jesus resurrected already, and many of the bodies of the saints resurrected with Him and went into that Holy City.

I teach that Christ is the First Resurrection.

For a period of time there while Jesus was on the cross, if the whole world was dark and quakeing. I suspect there was a fear on all men. If this were to happen today all over the earth, do you think men would have the fear of God in them.
51: And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Can you support this with scripture? What about this???

2Pe 3:10¶But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2Ti 2:12If we suffer, we shall also reign with [him]: if we deny [him], he also will deny us:

This is a far cry from what I teach and surely you know that.

You will admit that Christ is already risen and will not be resurrecting again, I am sure. Also, if you study Matt closely, you will see that many of the bodies that slept, arose after His resurrection and went into that Holy City. If all this is true that I have just quoted, then if thats not a resurrection, I don't know what one is.

Matt:

51: And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52: And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53: And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
54: Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

Do you believe this?? I really wonder how everyone can just "brush off" this great happening, that Jesus gave us an account of???

 

Skypair;
The person who said that McGee was a false teacher, also taught the following. I do not think I care for the person making the accusations against McGee. As far as McGee, I don't know the man, nor have I studied him. I read what he said about suicide and I tend to agree with him, who am I to judge if such a person is condemned to hell, he is in the hands of God. The brain is an organ the same as the heart and it can detoriate. I have visited nursing home many years and heard old Christians cursing and doing things they would not do in their right mind. Did I condemn them, absolutely not, its not my Job!!

By: a true church, P. O. Box 797, Lake Hughes, CA 93532-0797 (not my words, theirs)
If you are involved with the kind of Christianity that views the "church of Christ", or Billy Graham, or Rick Warren, or Joel Osteen, or James Dobson, or Pat Robertson, or John MacArthur, or Tony Evans, or Greg Laurie, or Charles Stanley, or Chuck Smith, or Fred Price, or J. Vernon McGee, or Charles Blake, or Chuck Swindoll, or Gene Scott, or Harold Camping (Family Radio), or John Piper, or T. D. Jakes, or David Jeremiah, or Charles Spurgeon, or Dave Hunt, or David W. Cloud, or Perry F Rockwood, or Neil Anderson, or Robert Schuller, or Jack Hayford, or Benny Hinn, or Miles McPherson, or Ray Comfort, or Jim Cobrae, or Chuck Colson, or C. S. Lewis, or Pope John Paul, or Hank Hanegraaff, or Paul Chappell, or any of the like (or any of the likes on "Christian" TV or radio) as godly men, you are not saved. Why? Because, you are on the broad way (Matthew 7:13; 2 Peter 2:2; 2 Timothy 4:3). You have not the characteristic of Christ's sheep (John 10:5). And, men such as these are wells without water (2 Peter 2:17).

 

Do you honestly believe that the saved is going there? I sure do not.

 

Scripture teaches that there are saved individuals that will end up in outer darkness, so yes I believe it.

 

Please post that scripture.

 

Sure. Matthew 22:1-14 and Matthew 25:14-30

 

Try the part that says outter darkness

Come now you know you already have the answers, so why don't you educate us as to how it's not teaching that.

 

The one without the wedding garment did not have the righteousness of Christ and therefore was cast out, as will happen to anyone who does not believe. Only unbelievers are cast into outer darkness.

 

There are no unbelievers being addressed here (Matthew 22:1-14 and Matthew 25:14-30) in any way. The context is conclusive that this is a message exclusively addressed to believers. There is no line item veto here.

lacy

 

Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Gal 2:4And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

 

Actually, these passages were addressed to Israel. They are talking about the Kingdom being taken from the Jews and offered to the Gentiles because of an unbelieving Israel.

If one is not clothed in the righteousness of Christ (wedding garment) they are NOT saved.